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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 5:43:37 GMT
Hello everybody I am looking for a early-renaissance style sword ; those who stood in-between the old chopping viking & norman swords and the thrusting rapiers. Price below 200 $ if possible, but I won't mind going a bit beyond that if you convince me that it'll be worth the extra cash. I'm looking a good cut & thrust weapon, with good handling and cutting power. I have taking numerous looks at : the sword of bicocca, english cut-and-thrust sword, saxon cut-and-thrust sword from Windlass, and the renaissance side-sword from Hanwei. If anyone had any experience with these or has anything to share, you may do so here, now
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 6:10:31 GMT
The hanwei mortuary sword is pretty nice...and can be had for just under 200 at KoA.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 9:44:21 GMT
The hanwei mortuary sword is pretty nice...and can be had for just under 200 at KoA. only thing with the mortuary (1635-1670)....it's about 50-100 yrs in the future of early 1500's Renaissance period. one of the side-sword or cut & thrust's would fit more nicely......
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 13:14:46 GMT
I've been really tempted to pick up a Hanwei Renaissance Side Sword ($160 from Kult of Athena). They look gorgeous and are good thrusters, but at least one board member has had a tang bend.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 5:00:24 GMT
The hanwei mortuary sword is pretty nice...and can be had for just under 200 at KoA. only thing with the mortuary (1635-1670)....it's about 50-100 yrs in the future of early 1500's Renaissance period. one of the side-sword or cut & thrust's would fit more nicely...... Yeah, the hanwei side sword would be a better fit...but I didn't much like it. The mortuary and the cromwell I thought were both very nice swords, but the side sword was very meh. Oh and the 160 dollar one at KoA is the practical version...i.e. the sparring/stage version and not the sharp.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 23:33:40 GMT
I have to say, the Hanwei sidesword is much prettier than anything windlass has to offer in that area, but it's pretty poorly made. Mine had a welded on tang, which isn't necessarily bad but it had huge voids at the weld. The tang (or rather the threaded rod) on mine was also bent slightly, and the handle is hollow in places it shouldn't be, which I think is why the tang was bent.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 0:37:44 GMT
Wow...did you try to get that replaced from hanwei?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 4:28:56 GMT
The hanwei sidesword is pretty but poorly made, from what is said here. Are the Windlass pieces well-made but ugly ... ?
I'm mostly interested by functionality, does anyone know anything about the Windlass (or other company) Renaissance-era swords ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 5:01:51 GMT
Well longer windlass tends to be a bit whippy. Even if they are not very whippy, they tends to be a bit to flexable for a good thrusting sword outta be. So basically I would say away from the english and more towards the saxon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 6:10:15 GMT
Hi there,I received a hanwei sidesword recently & it seems I must have got a good one as it really is a great looking sword.Iv experienced no problems with it.My tang is straight and the handle is solid.Iv done some light cutting and it has performed well so far.All in all I am happy with my piece.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 10:41:36 GMT
Thsi suggestion is a little above your stated price range, but surely worth it to save some more cabbage towards. Scott Wilson @ Darkwood Armory made a side-sword for me a few years back (had to sell it since then - med. bills). It's one I really regret letting go. here is the review I did on it for myArmoury www.myarmoury.com/review_dw_ss.htmlcheers, Bill
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 12:26:34 GMT
Wow...did you try to get that replaced from hanwei? I sent it back to KOA for a refund. Billiam that's a beaut. Del Tin has some eye popping early rapier/sidesword offerings for around $500. I know that's way out of the OP's range, but worth mentioning.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 12:57:27 GMT
Yeah, the hanwei side sword would be a better fit...but I didn't much like it. The mortuary and the cromwell I thought were both very nice swords, but the side sword was very meh. Oh and the 160 dollar one at KoA is the practical version...i.e. the sparring/stage version and not the sharp. Actually KoA has the sharp for $160 as well, you just have to look for it harder on their site.
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Post by hotspur on Oct 9, 2008 17:10:04 GMT
Speaking of Del Tin, Clyde of Generation 2 note has had a sword listed for at least a year now that I'm suprised no one has moved on. It is from someone's collection and has been sharpened. NO scabbard but a good price for this sword (if looking at new prices for Del Tin) www.imperialweapons.com/swords/deltin/dt5160.htmlI own the Windlass version of this sword and even when buying that had thought the Del Tin probably a step up but I wasn't prepared to spend much without knowing where reproductions would take me. The Windlass was discontinued when I bought mine (end of '99) and I may well have gotten the last one because they dropped the listing off their site after my order. I have still thought to maybe pick up the Del Tin version, hence having noted the listing on Clyde's site. This sword is pictured and described in several of the Oakeshott titles as one of the early rapier forms. Springy as it is, I still like my Windlass take on this one, it is (imo) one of the swords Windlass got almost right. The Windlass grip is actually more accurate to the illustrations of this sword. Windlass has also had several other sidesword types but they may all be discontinued at this point. Maybe worth checking out the Museum Replicas site to make sure. There was at least one recently with a wire wrapped grip that looked quite good. Italian something? Ring a bell anyone? There may be Windlass vendors out there with some of these old models still in stock. I know I saw a schiavona out there not too long ago and those were dropped awhile ago. MAybe some diligent browsing may turn up some of the old ones. One thing that might dissapoint with many of these is that the genre are (for the most part) not broad cleaving swords and not can openers meant for working a knight in plate. They were generally of a lighter calibre. There have been some stouter and shorter bladed "Town Guard" type swords that also have variations of the simpler compound hilts. A&A comes to mind but considering the budget projected, probably out of the question. I had actually gone from hanting the early Bugei site and Michael Bell's pages looking at Japanese style swords in the mid nineties and then spent several months at the end of that decade really looking at the market. I can't explain exactly why I went with an early rapier for my first reproduction (as my next was a Gus XIIIa) but the price was right at the time and it came with a scabbard. It also has continued to entertain my inner fop. The Hanwei Mortuary looks like fun and might well be something I consider down the road but I find myself revisiting swords I have that see less use. My Windlass espada ropera is one that gets rotated back to the front of the pile time and again. still, I may yet buy a Del Tin 5160. Cheers Hotspur; I could probably spend a lifetime collecting Del Tins that look attractive to me but looking is almost as much fun, so I spend on other things these days
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 17:31:19 GMT
interesting Hotspur.....when I was in the market for another side-sword, it was between this Del-Tin 5160 model and the Darkwood Armory that I eventually went for. Surprising too that no one has pounced on the one Clyde has. Windlass has dis-continued some very nice pieces (the thorn in Paul's side). One of the best and a favorite in my collection is / was the Scottish back-sword. I snagged this one from Nathan Robinson 4 + years ago. (first on the right) The Town Guard sword you mentioned is a looker as well...... Cheers, Bill
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Post by hotspur on Oct 9, 2008 18:21:47 GMT
Well, I just spent some time browsing MRL a couple of different ways (incidentally, Icingdeath and the other Twinkle?are still listed)
One Windlass sidesword type I don't see listed at KOA is the Military Sword Rapier #501044 I had also been eying the German Bakcsword some #500910. I have not handled them nor know of any reviews.
Hi Bill, it is kind of intresting to see overlaps in interests at times. Believe it or not, I had chosen the espada ropera based on Silver's perfect length formula. Now there is a case of drawing from one source to apply it to an entirely different period. Still, the context not so diffrent. I would then spend time rethinking many things once finding Italian texts and playing with stuff more in time with the particular sword. I had taken a lot of what Silver's notes spell out and applied it to what little I knew of Italian and Spanish forms at that time of my journeys in interests. Very ass backwards in the end. What it has all led to for me is liking single hand swords with about 34-37 inch blades a great deal. Just a length I have become comfortable with regardless of typology. Fast forward a bit more and it is even shorter bladed spadroons I am most often grabbing to play at close distance with. My one reproduction sabre falls somewhere between with about a 33" blade.
Cheers
Hotspur; oh to be a few decades younger again
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Post by ShooterMike on Oct 9, 2008 19:49:29 GMT
Hotspur,
I have an MRL German Backsword #500910. I loved the look of it in the online pics. But I was extremely disappointed when I finally held it in hand. It is very heavy and the balance makes it feel even heavier. The guard is also very heavy. The blade is thick all the way to the tip, with almost no distal taper whatsoever. And the PoB is out at about 7 inches. It is literally the slowest sword I have ever handled. So I have been considering salvaging the guard and pommel for a project on an ATrim blade. But I need to figure out how to lighten the guard.
In summation, this isn't a sword I would recommend for Rennaissance sidesword play.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 21:18:25 GMT
Well, I was a sword distributor for four years, and all that my experience taught me was that when Windlass and Del-Tin parted ways, the QC really went down. Windlass products are hit or miss - you get a good one or you get a really, really bad one.
I don't personally care for Hanwei products either, but funny enough, their practice swords are pretty damn nice. They can be edged and made functional for about half what you are looking to spend. Additionally, you can learn how to wrap your own scabbard and grip, as well as lay an edge - if you have patience for such.
You might consider something along the lines of a Valiant Armoury Signature Series Bristol. I am not sure about your contacts, but someone might be able to hook you up slightly over invoice on one. which would fall well within your price range.
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Post by hotspur on Oct 9, 2008 21:19:40 GMT
Hi MIke,
IIRC, it is listed as a cavalry swowrd. I had filed the nose heavy proportions of it in the back of my mind earlier. It was just a piece that looked like it might have some sleeper potential for something. Your thoughts of salvaging the hilt components might well be the best use of it. Maybe one of the reasons I have kind of sworn off reproductions is just the anticipation of dissapointment. I see even $100 now as money better stacked with other funds for more period items. Still, I cruise reproductions pretty frequently and play "What if?". I did break down and buy something from Hanwei this year but it's not a sword. That was dissapointment enough (even though minor) and a story I should probably write up sometime (1803 British spontoon).
Cheers
Hotspur; There is a dandy looking $60 cutlass I have my eyes on too
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 5:51:57 GMT
Thanks for all the info so far, everyone.
Lets recap :
-Del Tin ; some finger-licking good looking pieces, but very expensive. I'll have to get a better-paying job ... or maybe sell one of my lungs, why do I need two of 'em anyway ...
-Windlass/MRL ; Hit or miss, the english C&t looks wimpy (long blade with 3 fullers). The saxon hilt looks more robust, the german backsword has as much distal taper as a crowbar, which helps its handling ... The sword-rapier is good-looking piece, I'm glad that it was mentionned here, I would've passed it without that mention.
-The Hanwei Sidesword is a bit hit or miss too, but good ones are much appreciated.
This narrows the award for the ''best early-renaissance one-hand sword'' to these nominees : hanwei sidesword, windlass saxon-hilt cut & thrust sword, MRL sword-rapier. I excluded the sword of Bicocca, it looks very similar to the german backsword (long stout blade with no distal taper), and it probably has the same poor handling. I'd better hurry up making my mind, the canadian dollar is loosing value at an alarming rates these days ....
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