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Post by nerdthenord on Jun 28, 2022 16:44:15 GMT
Hello! This is the second time I've gone and practiced with my Glock 19. Long story why I haven't practiced more, but I am starting to now. I still suck, but am getting better at least.  Please ignore the grouping of five at the top center. That was my brother finishing off the box of ammo, not me. The rest is 45 round, or three mags, of Magtech 9mm ammo. 
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Post by Lord Newport on Jun 28, 2022 17:45:36 GMT
Hello! This is the second time I've gone and practiced with my Glock 19. Long story why I haven't practiced more, but I am starting to now. I still suck, but am getting better at least. Please ignore the grouping of five at the top center. That was my brother finishing off the box of ammo, not me. The rest is 45 round, or three mags, of Magtech 9mm ammo. Great to see you care enough about being a responsible and competent gun owner to be out practicing. Your target, looks like it was 7 yards away, reflects: 1) reasonable sight alignment as evidenced by not an overly wide horizontal dispersion of hits. 2) slight left bias as most right handed shooters do...too much finger in trigger, right hand squeezing more than left in grip/grip issues 3) clearly flinching, hence all the low shots but not a over wide dispersion. Research and study "surprise break". You are shooting waaay too fast. Comments/observations after watching you shoot ( from what I could see with limited angle) 1) Gun is jumping around in your hand too much on recoil...grip issues 2) Early high shots were you breaking your wrist. 3) Space between web of strong hand and tang of pistol 4) Had finger in trigger guard when you reloaded and let slide forward on new mag 5) Improper technique for inserting mag into mag well. Mag base should be in palm and index finger extended up to be resting on nose of first round. 6) Your knees looked locked... 7) Mismatched overall body position; arms are in isosceles and stance is modified Weaver/combat stance. - Remember when you are training and you see a round go anywhere but where you intended...SOMETHING needs to change. Its not the gun or the ammo...it is you. “Insanity is doing the same thing (at .50/round) over and over and expecting different results.”
- It has been my observation over the years that all the gadgets/accessories/lasers etc.. will never overcome a failure to master the basics of handgun marksmanship.
I suggest you save money on ammo going to the range by yourself and invest in some professional tactical training. Ammo is just too expensive these days and if you learn proper technique now, it will save you a lot more time and money trying to get it down later.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jun 28, 2022 18:06:21 GMT
Hello! This is the second time I've gone and practiced with my Glock 19. Long story why I haven't practiced more, but I am starting to now. I still suck, but am getting better at least. Please ignore the grouping of five at the top center. That was my brother finishing off the box of ammo, not me. The rest is 45 round, or three mags, of Magtech 9mm ammo. Great to see you care enough about being a responsible and competent gun owner to be out practicing. Your target, looks like it was 7 yards away, reflects: 1) reasonable sight alignment as evidenced by not an overly wide horizontal dispersion of hits. 2) slight left bias as most right handed shooters do...too much finger in trigger, right hand squeezing more than left in grip/grip issues 3) clearly flinching, hence all the low shots but not a over wide dispersion. Research and study "surprise break". You are shooting waaay too fast. Comments/observations after watching you shoot ( from what I could see with limited angle) 1) Gun is jumping around in your hand too much on recoil...grip issues 2) Early high shots were you breaking your wrist. 3) Space between web of strong hand and tang of pistol 4) Had finger in trigger guard when you reloaded and let slide forward on new mag 5) Improper technique for inserting mag into mag well. Mag base should be in palm and index finger extended up to be resting on nose of first round. 6) Your knees looked locked... 7) Mismatched overall body position; arms are in isosceles and stance is modified Weaver/combat stance. - Remember when you are training and you see a round go anywhere but where you intended...SOMETHING needs to change. Its not the gun or the ammo...it is you. “Insanity is doing the same thing (at .50/round) over and over and expecting different results.”
- It has been my observation over the years that all the gadgets/accessories/lasers etc.. will never overcome a failure to master the basics of handgun marksmanship.
I suggest you save money on ammo going to the range by yourself and invest in some professional tactical training. Ammo is just too expensive these days and if you learn proper technique now, it will save you a lot more time and money trying to get it down later.Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. Yeah, the laser is definitely a gimmick that provided no real benefit to me. I’ll likely be removing it soon. I’ll see when the next training session at the range is because it’s been way too long since I had any actual training, and like you said it would be a better money investment to get professional training than keep solo shooting for practice alone.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jun 28, 2022 19:51:25 GMT
Lord Newport gave a pretty thorough analysis, and I appreciate him for doing so. It is so common to find people online who will disrespect you or even your gear, but real champs recognize we all start somewhere and offer helpful advice.
I think my only point of disagreement is trigger finger placement during the firing cycle. Knowing your hand size, my guess is you didn't have much finger on the trigger in order to get the bore axis into the V of your thumb webbing, so you may have been pushing left against the side of the trigger slightly as the shot broke.
ABSOLUTELY practice trigger finger discipline, though, and keep your finger out of the trigger guard unless sights are on-target and you are ready to shoot. Developing and reinforcing that safe habit now is not only the safe thing to do, but by burning it into your muscle memory now you are less likely to get into trouble as you progress to more advanced stages. For example, finger in trigger guard (even if not touching trigger) when reholstering is a recipe for a bad day. Build that habit of indexing along the frame, outside the guard, and you'll be setting yourself up for success.
It may sound strange, but pistol marksmanship is a whole body process. That's a lot to monitor and control as a beginner, so trainers or experienced shooting partners can help by observing. I agree you should bend your knees a bit, lean forward slightly, and try rotating your elbows outward like a hug. If you have proper grip, this helps transfer recoil through the arms more linearly to the shoulders, then at a slight downward angle towards the hips, then through the legs to the ground. All of this reduces muzzle flip.
I suspect your support hand grip could be improved as well. Look up "thumbs forward" grips. Ideally the meat of your support hand will be filling the gap on the left side of the grip, giving you a 360 degree wrap. Also, if your left wrist is already mostly broken forward so you're pointing at the target with your thumb, that locked position will help reduce flip. Recoil happens, it's something you learn to ride rather than fight. Fighting leads to flinch.
In addition to competent training, the most important advice I can offer is lots and lots of dry-fire practice. Find a space or room where you forbid any ammo from occupying, and always check your chamber and mags before practice. I am lucky to have a room where I can do drills and clean, and NO ammo enters that room. One simple drill is to balance a penny on the front sight as you press, press, press the trigger to the rear for a surprise break. If you can do this consistently without the penny falling, you know you are introducing minimal movement into the gun during the firing cycle. This is also good to build muscle memory against flinch.
The dry-fire drills can help prevent flinch and build muscles. I noticed you struggled a but racking the slide and dropping the slide release. Dry-fire practice is a cheap way to build those muscles. Also, personal preference but I never use the slide release on pistols. I use an over-the-top grip to rack and release. That takes a little extra time, but works EVERY time. As someone who used to sell firearms, I've handled easily over 100 different models (I honestly lost count) and having 3 firearms I may choose to carry depending on season and needs, that is one less mechanism to worry about when transitioning between using different platforms.
A final note. It also looked like you were a bit nervous. There is nothing wrong with that, it's sane. You understand and respect the potential of the equipment you were operating, which is preferable to carelessness. As a minor flag (more worried about trigger finger, as Lord Newport noted) watch your muzzle when you reload. Now, that range was set up safely, but you muzzled the ceiling and a good bit of the left wall. Again, the range was built to absorb those impacts safely, but I mention it more to ask if you were aware you were doing it. If nervous, slow down. We aren't at the phase of stress drills yet. Take your time, be mindful of your weapon manipulation, build those good habits. Speed comes later, no rush.
Again, major kudos to Lord Newport for his solid and easy to understand analysis. Also, huge respect for posting a video of your range trip. That takes guts, and I hope you view our critiques as encouragement. We see a responsible firearms owner and fellow community member and we are cheering for you to have fun and improve. You've come a long way and I know you will keep bettering yourself as a marksman.
As always, safety first!
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Post by nerdthenord on Jun 28, 2022 20:33:28 GMT
Lord Newport gave a pretty thorough analysis, and I appreciate him for doing so. It is so common to find people online who will disrespect you or even your gear, but real champs recognize we all start somewhere and offer helpful advice. I think my only point of disagreement is trigger finger placement during the firing cycle. Knowing your hand size, my guess is you didn't have much finger on the trigger in order to get the bore axis into the V of your thumb webbing, so you may have been pushing left against the side of the trigger slightly as the shot broke. ABSOLUTELY practice trigger finger discipline, though, and keep your finger out of the trigger guard unless sights are on-target and you are ready to shoot. Developing and reinforcing that safe habit now is not only the safe thing to do, but by burning it into your muscle memory now you are less likely to get into trouble as you progress to more advanced stages. For example, finger in trigger guard (even if not touching trigger) when reholstering is a recipe for a bad day. Build that habit of indexing along the frame, outside the guard, and you'll be setting yourself up for success. It may sound strange, but pistol marksmanship is a whole body process. That's a lot to monitor and control as a beginner, so trainers or experienced shooting partners can help by observing. I agree you should bend your knees a bit, lean forward slightly, and try rotating your elbows outward like a hug. If you have proper grip, this helps transfer recoil through the arms more linearly to the shoulders, then at a slight downward angle towards the hips, then through the legs to the ground. All of this reduces muzzle flip. I suspect your support hand grip could be improved as well. Look up "thumbs forward" grips. Ideally the meat of your support hand will be filling the gap on the left side of the grip, giving you a 360 degree wrap. Also, if your left wrist is already mostly broken forward so you're pointing at the target with your thumb, that locked position will help reduce flip. Recoil happens, it's something you learn to ride rather than fight. Fighting leads to flinch. In addition to competent training, the most important advice I can offer is lots and lots of dry-fire practice. Find a space or room where you forbid any ammo from occupying, and always check your chamber and mags before practice. I am lucky to have a room where I can do drills and clean, and NO ammo enters that room. One simple drill is to balance a penny on the front sight as you press, press, press the trigger to the rear for a surprise break. If you can do this consistently without the penny falling, you know you are introducing minimal movement into the gun during the firing cycle. This is also good to build muscle memory against flinch. The dry-fire drills can help prevent flinch and build muscles. I noticed you struggled a but racking the slide and dropping the slide release. Dry-fire practice is a cheap way to build those muscles. Also, personal preference but I never use the slide release on pistols. I use an over-the-top grip to rack and release. That takes a little extra time, but works EVERY time. As someone who used to sell firearms, I've handled easily over 100 different models (I honestly lost count) and having 3 firearms I may choose to carry depending on season and needs, that is one less mechanism to worry about when transitioning between using different platforms. A final note. It also looked like you were a bit nervous. There is nothing wrong with that, it's sane. You understand and respect the potential of the equipment you were operating, which is preferable to carelessness. As a minor flag (more worried about trigger finger, as Lord Newport noted) watch your muzzle when you reload. Now, that range was set up safely, but you muzzled the ceiling and a good bit of the left wall. Again, the range was built to absorb those impacts safely, but I mention it more to ask if you were aware you were doing it. If nervous, slow down. We aren't at the phase of stress drills yet. Take your time, be mindful of your weapon manipulation, build those good habits. Speed comes later, no rush. Again, major kudos to Lord Newport for his solid and easy to understand analysis. Also, huge respect for posting a video of your range trip. That takes guts, and I hope you view our critiques as encouragement. We see a responsible firearms owner and fellow community member and we are cheering for you to have fun and improve. You've come a long way and I know you will keep bettering yourself as a marksman. As always, safety first! Thanks! Yeah, I definitely appreciate both of y’all’ comments and critiques. I particularly appreciate the safety pointers y’all gave. I’m definitely gonna try to be even more careful and drill it in to be absolutely safe. No need to do things quickly yet at all. And yes, you definitely noticed my lack of strength and endurance. That was caused by a severe case of Plummer’s Disease that went untreated for a few years, but fortunately I had my thyroid nuked a few weeks ago and my thyroid hormone levels are rapidly normalizing. Now I should start actually gaining strength and endurance instead of falling apart all the time from severe hyperthyroidism. Also, I found some cowboy action 45 long colt online and ordered a box, so next month I’ll be trying out my Artillery 1873 as well.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jun 28, 2022 20:41:43 GMT
I'm glad to hear you have a good prognosis and should be recovering well. My thyroid is a bit jacked too, indicating hypo with symptoms, but doc's are just shrugging for now.
FWIW, most people struggle with rack and slide release at first. That's totally normal. Repetition helps, and you get a lot of that recocking during dry-fire. That's one of the reasons I suggested that be introduced into a regular routine.
A side note about lasers. I likewise don't love them on carey guns, but think they are great for training. Instead of the penny trick, you can have your laser on while dryfiring. Don't AIM with it, focus on your front sight. But, DO notice the dot moving in your peripheral vision. It can helpM identify how and where you are introducing movement into the firearm. It can also keep you aware of muzzle discipline. Then, with the fundamentals more muscle memory than tool use, you can remove the laser for range and carry if that's your style.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jun 28, 2022 21:41:17 GMT
Poor lighting, but I’ve been practicing the thumb forwards grip and it feels so much better than the not so good grip I had going.  
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tera
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Post by tera on Jun 29, 2022 1:08:11 GMT
That's a very good start, and may need no change if you have good control of the firearm. You might benefit from pointing your support hand thumb even further forward, to fully lock out the left wrist. Good picture and fair article here. Also note her elbows rotated out like a hug. www.thetruthaboutguns.com/get-a-grip/amp/
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eastman
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Post by eastman on Jun 29, 2022 1:44:44 GMT
I'm glad to hear you have a good prognosis and should be recovering well. My thyroid is a bit jacked too, indicating hypo with symptoms, but doc's are just shrugging for now. FWIW, most people struggle with rack and slide release at first. That's totally normal. Repetition helps, and you get a lot of that recocking during dry-fire. That's one of the reasons I suggested that be introduced into a regular routine. A side note about lasers. I likewise don't love them on carey guns, but think they are great for training. Instead of the penny trick, you can have your laser on while dryfiring. Don't AIM with it, focus on your front sight. But, DO notice the dot moving in your peripheral vision. It can helpM identify how and where you are introducing movement into the firearm. It can also keep you aware of muzzle discipline. Then, with the fundamentals more muscle memory than tool use, you can remove the laser for range and carry if that's your style.
I was going to post the same thing about using the laser for dry-fire training. That was the secret to mastering the DA-only trigger on a small pocket .380.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jun 30, 2022 0:05:33 GMT
A possibly helpful video by a prominent competitive shooter on recoil management. I like a lot of her perspective on maximizing your own physiology:
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Post by nerdthenord on Jun 30, 2022 15:51:38 GMT
A possibly helpful video by a prominent competitive shooter on recoil management. I like a lot of her perspective on maximizing your own physiology: Thanks. I’ll definitely check this out!
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Jul 1, 2022 6:54:28 GMT
Excellent video. This one is one of my favorites to show to new(er) pistol shooters...
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2022 15:09:05 GMT
All of the YouTube videos in the world will not replace actual hands on instruction from a competent professional trainer. Before he spends any more money on ammo at the range, I strongly recommend the OP invest in taking the basic entry level handgun offering from a reputable tactical handgun outfit to learn the techniques to accurately shoot and competently manipulate his handgun and begin to lean some of the basics of combat handgun tactics.
Learning to "shoot" your handgun is NOT the same thing as learning to "fight" with your handgun.
OP where do you live? Lets see who is near you to "train" with.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jul 1, 2022 15:34:16 GMT
Agreed, the reference was to better highlight the whole body nature of the hobby, and what I meant by elbows out.
Also, I do NOT recommend the NRA for courses. Took a couplw of those, terrible waste of time and money. Lord Newport may be able to help you find a qualified trainer in your area.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2022 15:45:16 GMT
Agreed, the reference was to better highlight the whole body nature of the hobby, and what I meant by elbows out. Also, I do NOT recommend the NRA for courses. Took a couplw of those, terrible waste of time and money. Lord Newport may be able to help you find a qualified trainer in your area. I second the comment on NRA courses. Most all are for someone picking a gun up for the first time and the more advanced ones are geared to bulls eye, target shooting, not combat shooting.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Jul 2, 2022 2:03:43 GMT
Lord Newport gave a pretty thorough analysis, and I appreciate him for doing so. It is so common to find people online who will disrespect you or even your gear, but real champs recognize we all start somewhere and offer helpful advice. I think my only point of disagreement is trigger finger placement during the firing cycle. Knowing your hand size, my guess is you didn't have much finger on the trigger in order to get the bore axis into the V of your thumb webbing, so you may have been pushing left against the side of the trigger slightly as the shot broke. ABSOLUTELY practice trigger finger discipline, though, and keep your finger out of the trigger guard unless sights are on-target and you are ready to shoot. Developing and reinforcing that safe habit now is not only the safe thing to do, but by burning it into your muscle memory now you are less likely to get into trouble as you progress to more advanced stages. For example, finger in trigger guard (even if not touching trigger) when reholstering is a recipe for a bad day. Build that habit of indexing along the frame, outside the guard, and you'll be setting yourself up for success. It may sound strange, but pistol marksmanship is a whole body process. That's a lot to monitor and control as a beginner, so trainers or experienced shooting partners can help by observing. I agree you should bend your knees a bit, lean forward slightly, and try rotating your elbows outward like a hug. If you have proper grip, this helps transfer recoil through the arms more linearly to the shoulders, then at a slight downward angle towards the hips, then through the legs to the ground. All of this reduces muzzle flip. I suspect your support hand grip could be improved as well. Look up "thumbs forward" grips. Ideally the meat of your support hand will be filling the gap on the left side of the grip, giving you a 360 degree wrap. Also, if your left wrist is already mostly broken forward so you're pointing at the target with your thumb, that locked position will help reduce flip. Recoil happens, it's something you learn to ride rather than fight. Fighting leads to flinch. In addition to competent training, the most important advice I can offer is lots and lots of dry-fire practice. Find a space or room where you forbid any ammo from occupying, and always check your chamber and mags before practice. I am lucky to have a room where I can do drills and clean, and NO ammo enters that room. One simple drill is to balance a penny on the front sight as you press, press, press the trigger to the rear for a surprise break. If you can do this consistently without the penny falling, you know you are introducing minimal movement into the gun during the firing cycle. This is also good to build muscle memory against flinch. The dry-fire drills can help prevent flinch and build muscles. I noticed you struggled a but racking the slide and dropping the slide release. Dry-fire practice is a cheap way to build those muscles. Also, personal preference but I never use the slide release on pistols. I use an over-the-top grip to rack and release. That takes a little extra time, but works EVERY time. As someone who used to sell firearms, I've handled easily over 100 different models (I honestly lost count) and having 3 firearms I may choose to carry depending on season and needs, that is one less mechanism to worry about when transitioning between using different platforms. A final note. It also looked like you were a bit nervous. There is nothing wrong with that, it's sane. You understand and respect the potential of the equipment you were operating, which is preferable to carelessness. As a minor flag (more worried about trigger finger, as Lord Newport noted) watch your muzzle when you reload. Now, that range was set up safely, but you muzzled the ceiling and a good bit of the left wall. Again, the range was built to absorb those impacts safely, but I mention it more to ask if you were aware you were doing it. If nervous, slow down. We aren't at the phase of stress drills yet. Take your time, be mindful of your weapon manipulation, build those good habits. Speed comes later, no rush. Again, major kudos to Lord Newport for his solid and easy to understand analysis. Also, huge respect for posting a video of your range trip. That takes guts, and I hope you view our critiques as encouragement. We see a responsible firearms owner and fellow community member and we are cheering for you to have fun and improve. You've come a long way and I know you will keep bettering yourself as a marksman. As always, safety first! Thanks! Yeah, I definitely appreciate both of y’all’ comments and critiques. I particularly appreciate the safety pointers y’all gave. I’m definitely gonna try to be even more careful and drill it in to be absolutely safe. No need to do things quickly yet at all. And yes, you definitely noticed my lack of strength and endurance. That was caused by a severe case of Plummer’s Disease that went untreated for a few years, but fortunately I had my thyroid nuked a few weeks ago and my thyroid hormone levels are rapidly normalizing. Now I should start actually gaining strength and endurance instead of falling apart all the time from severe hyperthyroidism. Also, I found some cowboy action 45 long colt online and ordered a box, so next month I’ll be trying out my Artillery 1873 as well. Make sure you do some research on how to safely shoot that revolver before you go out for the first time. The mechanics/ergonomics do not easily translate from an auto to a revolver. About a month ago, at the range, a brand new revolver shooter ended up with some nasty burns because she fired the gun with a support hand, thumb forward grip. Nobody was watching her and she had her support hand thumb forward of the cylinder.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jul 2, 2022 2:20:33 GMT
100% What Curtis_Luis said.
Do NOT put any flesh forward of the barrel/cylinder gap, even if you are running an 1895 Nagant. Sometimes people do cylinder conversions on those to run more common ammo that doesn't create a gas seal.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jul 2, 2022 14:09:51 GMT
Oh absolutely. Revolvers are a totally different beast. I've heard stories of people losing fingers from some of the bigger hunting revolvers.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jul 2, 2022 14:12:37 GMT
All of the YouTube videos in the world will not replace actual hands on instruction from a competent professional trainer. Before he spends any more money on ammo at the range, I strongly recommend the OP invest in taking the basic entry level handgun offering from a reputable tactical handgun outfit to learn the techniques to accurately shoot and competently manipulate his handgun and begin to lean some of the basics of combat handgun tactics. Learning to "shoot" your handgun is NOT the same thing as learning to "fight" with your handgun. OP where do you live? Lets see who is near you to "train" with. I'm in Corpus Christi, Texas.
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Post by berrywal on Nov 27, 2022 17:59:52 GMT
I think you did a pretty great job, especially for a beginner. If you practice more, I am sure you'll get better at it, no worries about that. However, I am curious where do you get your guns from? When I first started, I was pretty lost regarding this aspect. Over time, I found some websites which helped me a lot. If you are still looking for some options, this site has some decent options which you can choose from. Moreover, they are tested by many people, and the quality is extremely good for their price.
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