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Post by rkr on Feb 8, 2022 21:03:54 GMT
This is my first post and I'd like to take the opportunity to thank this forum for great tutorials that allowed me to customize my Hanwei Tinker Viking sword. Since I shortened the grip and haven't seen it done elsewhere I thought it might be worth posting how I did it. I really like the blade in this sword but unfortunately the grip always felt clumsy. While I was studying the blade inlays for the first part of my customization (etching) I found a photo of rather well preserved Viking age grip in Moilanen's book Marks of Fire, Value and Faith - Swords with Ferrous Inlays in Finland during the Late Iron Age (ca. 700–1200 AD).
It's quite obvious that Hanwei grip is nothing like this and further study told me that while it's too wide and of wrong shape, it's also too long for me not allowing proper grip. So it was time to change that.
I started by removing the original grip which then allowed me to push the pommel towards the crossguard thus exposing the peened end of the tang. I filed the peening off which allowed me to dis assemble the grip.
The cross guard was loose while the pommel had a piece of wood stuck inside to prevent it from wobbling. I wedged some copper sheet on both sides of the cross guard to make it solid and filed the tang slightly narrower at the end to allow the pommel to go deeper in tang forming a tight fit with 90mm grip length. I then cut off the excess tang leaving some 1.5mm to stick out of the pommel which I then peened to the pommel. No heat, just hammering - the steel is not that hard really.
I had now a solid sword where crossguard and pommel were fixed in place so and the grip length felt good so it was time for the actual grip. Two 3mm thick slates of wood (ash) were glued on both sides of the tang, they were rectangular and same width as tang at the crossguard. The gaps towards the pommel were filled with two smaller pieces of wood also glued on.
Once the glue had dried it was time for some carving and sanding and I had a grip that resembled the oneon the first photo in shape. Then some leather rings were glued on, some string wrapped around the grip and finally I used the original piece of leather to cover it all.
Now the sword not only looks much more like originals but it's also much better to handle. The right grip length allows some nice extra speed for the blade by me using my pinky to push against the pommel, makes it work like a lever. The finish of the wrap is not perfect as this was my first try but it's good enough for now and to my eyes much better than the original. So, if you feel that the grip on your viking sword is too long, shorten it.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Feb 8, 2022 21:08:02 GMT
Very nice job!
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LeMal
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Posts: 1,083
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Post by LeMal on Feb 8, 2022 23:47:19 GMT
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Post by joe_meadmaker on Feb 9, 2022 1:58:12 GMT
That looks great! Nicely done!
And welcome.
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Feb 9, 2022 3:44:02 GMT
First, great job!
Second, that book is great, isn't it?
Third, and this is a minor point, it's not that the shape of the Hanwei pommel is 'wrong,' it's just that it's a different type. The picture you posted is of a type S (or R, or T maybe), whereas the Hanwei appears to be close to a type E. It might not be exact - I admit I don't pay much attention to type Es.
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Post by rkr on Feb 9, 2022 6:20:28 GMT
First of all, thank you everyone for your kind words.
Yes, that book is brilliant and makes for great reading. Some of the finds in that book are even close to my birth place which makes it even more fascinating.
I did study the Petersen typology and what I really wanted was a type H sword. Unfortunately those type Hs within my budget range had not so good blades and as the blade is THE important thing for me (isn't that what swords are all about?) I went with Hanwei and ended up with the type E hilt.
One thing I forgot to mention is that I rounded off the edges of hilt pieces while they were apart. Even with rounded edges I would still prefer wearing gloves if I was to swing this sword for long periods of time, no wonder the type H with more gentle edges was so popular for so long period of time.
To be frank my grip still seems to be a bit too wide even though I made it as narrow as possible without narrowing the actual tang. Some of those viking age tangs were really thin rat tails.
Actually I really wanted to make INGELRII etchings on the blade but since it doesn't fit the time period of type E hilt I settled for +ULFBERH+T. Perhaps I'll build a late Viking period sword as my next project, INGELRII inscription started to appear just when type H hilts started to go away so that could still be historical, or perhaps type X would be more appropriate ...
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Feb 9, 2022 15:27:29 GMT
If you want a historically accurate type H, I've had Purna of GGK make a few. I'd be happy to share the designs with you and you could order one from him. They're generally about $500 or so. However, I didn't have him put precious metals over the guards and pommel as is historically generally done with type H...
I have to say though that even the type H can dig into your palm if you aren't careful!
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Post by rkr on Feb 10, 2022 12:16:35 GMT
If you want a historically accurate type H, I've had Purna of GGK make a few. I'd be happy to share the designs with you and you could order one from him. They're generally about $500 or so. However, I didn't have him put precious metals over the guards and pommel as is historically generally done with type H... I have to say though that even the type H can dig into your palm if you aren't careful! Interesting. I actually considered getting some brass and making Type H hilt parts for my sword. The originals were however well made so I decided to keep them. Brass/copper were used as plating for type Hs so brass pieces would look correct and they would be easier to make than steel parts. Unfortunately my budget doesn't include any new swords for a while, perhaps later.
If type H also digs in to your hand, I wonder what's the most comfortable hilt type then? Type S seems to have well rounded edges and it was rather popular based on number of finds. Or perhaps type X with brazil nut shaped pommel as that was one of the last developments in Viking age?
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Feb 10, 2022 21:26:56 GMT
My personal opinion on the digging into the hand is that it probably indicates we are holding the sword wrong or using it in a way they didn't use it historically. For instance, maybe the hand is meant to stay ridged with the grip, kind of like how you have to use an Indian Tulwar. Others, like Roland Warzecha, have a very different opinion than I do, and I admit they have a lot more experience than I!
EDIT: My concern about an all-brass hilt for type H would be that it would be heavier than the historical ones, which were iron covered in a thin layer of copper, silver, etc...
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Feb 10, 2022 22:49:58 GMT
My personal opinion on the digging into the hand is that it probably indicates we are holding the sword wrong or using it in a way they didn't use it historically. For instance, maybe the hand is meant to stay ridged with the grip, kind of like how you have to use an Indian Tulwar. Others, like Roland Warzecha, have a very different opinion than I do, and I admit they have a lot more experience than I!
EDIT: My concern about an all-brass hilt for type H would be that it would be heavier than the historical ones, which were iron covered in a thin layer of copper, silver, etc...
Or, of course, maybe all three ways are "right." (Including that some people hold it in a way that digs into the hand, but ignore the discomfort. ;) Seriously though, it is very possible that people inured to all kinds of hardship/discomfort might just have carried over traditions of hilt manufacture and/or liked the aesthetics and said "you're a warrior--stop complaining about a little owie.") The truth, as always, in martial art is: Whatever works, works.
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Feb 10, 2022 23:19:28 GMT
That is ALSO a good point! It's likely they might just have not cared if it dug in (it's really not THAT big a deal). And it's possible that different people used the swords differently.
However, this thread is probably not the place for a detailed discussion of why I think that they used the swords in one way vs another...
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Post by rkr on Feb 15, 2022 8:27:34 GMT
That is ALSO a good point! It's likely they might just have not cared if it dug in (it's really not THAT big a deal). And it's possible that different people used the swords differently. However, this thread is probably not the place for a detailed discussion of why I think that they used the swords in one way vs another...
It's worth remembering that Viking used to row, a LOT as proven by skeletons showing huge upper body muscles coming from all that rowing. Outboard engines were a thing of future so it was mostly muscle power moving those boats from Scandinavia up to the rivers of middle Europe. That gives you rather thick skin on your hands so you won't be bothered by little things like not so round edges on sword hilts.
I can say that my sword has now much better "whoosh" factor than it did previously, i.e. the tip of the blade travels faster as I can use the pommel to turn the sword. With longer grip I couldn't do that and making it "whoosh" was harder with fainter whoosh.
I'm still thinking of my next sword/project. Deepeekas are cheap but blades are heavy so they would require lots of work to lighten up. I could try finding a Tinker Viking blade and building my own, or perhaps get Windlass "Ulfberht" and mod that. Of course a Vendel sword would also be a real nice thing to have. Things to ponder while gathering hobby funds. I'm quite happy with this Tinker but I think it feels a bit lonely ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 15:03:03 GMT
Excellent job on this project! Everything looks so clean and tidy.
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