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Post by uncletom on Jan 5, 2022 13:16:32 GMT
Hi folks. I'm new here, in fact new to the hobby altogether. I searched this forum but couldn't find any answers to my questions, so I figured I'd do a thread.
I got my 'first sword' just a few days ago. A viking style made of stainless steel with a nice leather sheath, bought from a handy manufacturer in Pakistan (seller middletown.leather on ebay). I'm pretty sure you'd all consider it to be pure rubbish, but at least it feels good in my hand when the need is there. Anyway I'm looking to eventually get a good reproduction of the Atlantean sword which, according to the film, Conan found inside that tomb.
Even though the sword surely is a competent weapon as well as a fine piece of art, I'm mostly interested in its story. The name "Atlantean" seems to losely point to any culture around and about the atlantic ocean, in this case it should be tied to the legend of Atlantis. However, Conan, a cimmerian, came across this sword by accident. He didn't create it, he most probably didn't know what sword it was and who those people were inside the tomb by the looks on his face while pouding all the grit off the sword. He just found a new toy.
I can't say how many times I watched the film, but each time I do I discover something new. I never read any of Howard's books so my only impressions of Conan are from the 1982 film. Watching the scene where Conan finds the sword in the hands of the dead king, I wonder; Who was this king? What was this place, and who where the dead?
Though Conan's dad seemed to be a great blacksmith, Conan was not. He was a cimmerian orphan, sold as a slave to serve or die, then grew up to become a gladiator, finally set free to roam around as a rootless thief getting into trouble. One might wonder why or how he alone had survived the wheel of pain when there were other, stronger boys, who didn't. (.. or where did they go? Sold off perhaps?)
So, how was the "Atlantean sword" *atlantean*? What is known about its origin?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 5, 2022 13:49:20 GMT
The "Atlantean" sword is exclusively from the two Schwarzenegger Conan movies. Afaik never mentioned in the novels, at least the novels written by Howard. In the novels he had always different swords or scimitars, a magic supersword for Conan wasn't interesting for Howard. Here's a wiki with informations of Conan's world/era: conan.fandom.com/wiki/Atlantean_Sword?so=searchconan.fandom.com/wiki/Cimmerians#Historyconan.fandom.com/wiki/AtlantisI'm absolutely happy with my Windlass Atlantean. There are cheaper just decorative versions and a very expensive functional version from Albion. Also there are functional versions from Ryanswords and perhaps other Chinese forges, dunno. |
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Post by pellius on Jan 5, 2022 14:00:54 GMT
Welcome to the forum. I can’t help with the lore, but a good (and licensed) replica of the sword can be found here: www.albion-swords.com/barbarian.htmlI do not own one. It is just too expensive for what it is. That price range includes many outstanding swords by famous makers as well as good quality Euro antiques and entry level nihonto. If you are seriously all about the Atlantean, though, it’s probably the one to have. Imho, the Atlantan is just too heavy to be a functional sword, even when made by high end makers such as Albion. As stated above, there are far less expensive copies that have okay reputations. Good hunting! |
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jan 5, 2022 15:08:14 GMT
Wow, if you liked the movies, you'll LOVE the books.
Give them a try.
Also maybe look up some lore on Kull, I believe he was atlantean.
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Post by uncletom on Jan 5, 2022 15:27:02 GMT
Hi guys, and thanks for links and info. I've read most of what is available on internet about the sword, not so much about Howard's Conan though, but that's very well because I think it would spoil my image of him. I'd much rather keep Arnold as he was in many ways my male role model back then. Still, one may wonder, Atlantis was mentioned in the beginning of the film by the narrator, so there surely was an Atlantis in the world of Conan. Because we don't really know what or where this 'continent' was, nor what people lived there other than that they were skilled in various technology, it's not easy imagining the weapons they would craft. But, as they were supposed *skilled people*, kind of like the elves in LOTR, I'd imagine the swords must have been quite well made, possibly out of some unknown stronger and lighter metal. I read that Conans sword is very heavy, about 3-4 kg, but what if it wasn't made of steel, but some other yet unknown alloy making it about half its current weight? The people of Atlantis were supposedly capable of making flying vessels, well then these materials would have come pretty well in hand when making swords too, I think.
.. then again, we don't know what "Atlantis" was like in Conan's world. I mean "Atlantis" is just a name, right?
Thanks Global. I'll check out Kull then.
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seth
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Post by seth on Jan 5, 2022 15:45:36 GMT
In Howard's mythology Atlantis was an island nation off the coast of Pictland. He wrote stories featuring Kull, an Atlantean. In his lore, Atlantis was fairly advanced when it sank in a cataclysm. Survivors made their way to the main continent and established new settlements. One group became the ancestors of the Cimmerians. Kull and Conan are described very similar physically.
Anyway, perhaps the movies called the sword the "Atlantean" in homage to Howard's lore. However, I have a fan theory: Conan would have been a descendant of the Atlanteans and so finding the tomb of one of their ancient kings and "inheriting" the sword was setting him up to be king later as shown in the ending of the movie. The long-dead king moves slightly. Was it just old bones resettling or was he giving his blessing to Conan?
I wouldn't hesitate to read the books. I love both, and I think they both stand on their own.
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Post by uncletom on Jan 5, 2022 15:50:53 GMT
Thanks Seth, a very valid and credible theory.
It looks like Kull had about the same upbringing as Conan; "Slave, pirate, outlaw, and gladiator". Seems Robert liked that type of character and couldn't make his mind up on who to focus on, Kull or Conan. Both bad boys with a similar past. Also I found the film "Kull the Conqueror" where Kevin Sorbo is Kull. I don't know, watching the trailer didn't help much. The movie feels cheap and the settings aren't very convincing. Looks like they just went to Italy. www.imdb.com/title/tt0119484/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0The film Conan the Barbarian looks much more *real* with dirty live characters. Also the landscapes and what architecture is present looks more surreal and out of this world. |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 5, 2022 15:56:42 GMT
The beginning narration in Conan the Barbarian is from a Conan story afaik.
I'm not extremely familiar with the stories of Howard, I prefer the Arnold movies too.
The Atlantean swords are film props, I like them but there isn't much story behind.
Afaik Ryansword make or made a version that weights just 2,5 kg which is still heavy for a functional sword.
I like my 3,6 kg Windlass Atlantean, I can swing it even single handed, but any sword with such a mass isn't really functional.
We had discussions here how to create a functional Atlantean, but still no working idea.
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Post by uncletom on Jan 5, 2022 16:05:48 GMT
Andi, I agree. The current atlantean swords are too heavy, IRL that is. But I'm such a romantic though, can't keep from fantasising about things that could have been. Have someone perhaps yet thought about making the atlantean sword out of aluminium? Just for wielding, not actual impact? That would make it at least ... wieldable.
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Post by Paul Muad’Dib on Jan 5, 2022 21:32:53 GMT
Well seems like most of your questions have been answered by the time I got here. Agree with everyone above. In the movie they had fiberglass prop swords for the scenes where it needed to be wielded quickly but the metal sword was used when they wanted Arnolds muscles to stand out. Like the solo scene where he’s doing his kata.
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seth
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Post by seth on Jan 5, 2022 21:48:06 GMT
Thanks Seth, a very valid and credible theory.
It looks like Kull had about the same upbringing as Conan; "Slave, pirate, outlaw, and gladiator". Seems Robert liked that type of character and couldn't make his mind up on who to focus on, Kull or Conan. Both bad boys with a similar past. Also I found the film "Kull the Conqueror" where Kevin Sorbo is Kull. I don't know, watching the trailer didn't help much. The movie feels cheap and the settings aren't very convincing. Looks like they just went to Italy. www.imdb.com/title/tt0119484/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0The film Conan the Barbarian looks much more *real* with dirty live characters. Also the landscapes and what architecture is present looks more surreal and out of this world. Yeah Kull and Conan are pretty similar. There's even a cross-over story in one of the old comics when magic time-traveling brings them together. The Kull movie was a big disappointment. Too much of the "Hercules" TV show vibe. |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 6, 2022 6:26:51 GMT
I have a strong vision of myself standing before Crom and hearing me say: "Fiberglass".
Next I hear the sound of a toilet flushing...
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Post by Paul Muad’Dib on Jan 6, 2022 14:35:43 GMT
I have a strong vision of myself standing before Crom and hearing me say: "Fiberglass". Next I hear the sound of a toilet flushing... 😆 |
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Post by nddave on Jan 6, 2022 15:17:41 GMT
Big fan of Conan myself, most of my knowledge of the lore comes from the 70s-80s Marvel Comics which I have a large collection of. In regards to the Atlantean Sword not much info is given regarding its origins. In the Movie adaptation comic they make a specific note that the King on the Throne was a giant. This makes some sense to the size and weight of the Atlantean as in Conan's hands the sword is a hand and a half sword but would be the dimensions of a Arming Sword to the Giant King. When looking at the movie itself it seems the premise was the King being a Giant as his skeleton outsizes Conan and the length of the blade is about equal to the skeleton's foot, tibia and knee. Not much lore has been given to the sword itself with its name basically giving it ancient origins, as the Atlanteans were a highly advanced race which is why the sword is so intricate and strong despite being so old.
In both the comics and books swords were more or less disposable as Conan went through numerous swords and usually his next sword was the one he removed from a dead enemy's hand.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 6, 2022 15:20:57 GMT
You hit the nail with the hammer on the head:  |
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seth
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Post by seth on Jan 6, 2022 15:41:15 GMT
There is an L Sprague De Camp Conan story "The Thing in the Crypt" where Conan finds an ancient sword in the hands of a skeletal warrior which could be partial inspiration for the movie scene too. I have a 1993 black and white comic adaption of it. I loved the B&W comics.   |
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Post by nddave on Jan 6, 2022 18:17:41 GMT
There is an L Sprague De Camp Conan story "The Thing in the Crypt" where Conan finds an ancient sword in the hands of a skeletal warrior which could be partial inspiration for the movie scene too. I have a 1993 black and white comic adaption of it. I loved the B&W comics. Nice, I must not have that issue, but I don't have many Savage Sword of Conan issues. What's the issue number or is it a Conan Saga issue? |
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seth
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Post by seth on Jan 6, 2022 19:55:13 GMT
There is an L Sprague De Camp Conan story "The Thing in the Crypt" where Conan finds an ancient sword in the hands of a skeletal warrior which could be partial inspiration for the movie scene too. I have a 1993 black and white comic adaption of it. I loved the B&W comics. Nice, I must not have that issue, but I don't have many Savage Sword of Conan issues. What's the issue number or is it a Conan Saga issue? It's Conan Saga #75 June. I wish I had a complete set, but my budget only let me buy them sporadically back then! |
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Post by nddave on Jan 6, 2022 22:20:07 GMT
Nice, I must not have that issue, but I don't have many Savage Sword of Conan issues. What's the issue number or is it a Conan Saga issue? It's Conan Saga #75 June. I wish I had a complete set, but my budget only let me buy them sporadically back then! Nice, they're not too expensive if you can find them. Yea I have around 12 or so between Savage and Saga. I have near all the King Conan issues and over 150 or so Barbarian issues with my oldest a #17 but have near all the issues between 199 and 275 through the late 80s early 90s. Also have some special editions and annuals as well as the What If issue where he fights Captain America. |
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Post by Alexander on Apr 4, 2022 20:17:51 GMT
Everything I have found out about the Atlantean comes from interviews with John Milius,Jody Sampson and Ron Cobb production designer. Ron Cobb designed several versions of both swords. The Atlantean was made after the destruction of Atlantis. Since its hilt imagery depicts events before, during and the escape from Atlantis.The dead Atlantean was not a king according to John Milius he was a general. When he died he was buried with his belongs including horses and servants. As someone mentioned he was a giant while John Milius as far as I know never gave an exact height but its somewhere between 8-9 feet tall. Making the Atlantean a one handed sword for him. The blade was made of an advance steel which is why the corrosion came off when Conan hit on the rocks.
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