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Post by 14thforsaken on Dec 28, 2021 8:50:38 GMT
Ended up getting a Begara B-14 HMR rifle in .308 Winchester this year. Pretty nice gun. Just need to break the barrel in and get the gun zeroed. Granted the B-14 is their entry line, but the higher Models in the line like the HMR are very nice. Its designed for both hunting and match shooting. I like that Begara is primarily a high end barrel manufacturer and are known for their barrels that recently went into the gun market. The person they chose to run their program was the then current head of the US Marines Precision Weapons Systems and he brought a lot of his people with him. He was pretty excited to add some features he had been wanting to add to the Marine M-40 sniper system but kept getting told no on. From my understanding, he made those changes to every model of the Begaras. Normally I would have gotten a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AC SSD. They are fairly similar guns in features, but after Remington's bankruptcies, complaints about the decline in their guns and the fact that they will not warranty it made be decide to move on. I've also seen places where they tell you which serial number Remingtons are still good and which to avoid which does not inspire confidence in me. This is the gun I ended up getting: www.bergara.online/us/rifles/b14/hmr-rifle/I love the fact that the barrel is pre-threaded so I can just drop in any muzzle device I want. Currently I have a VG6 Epsilon 762 Muzzle Brake, Harris Bipod, Vortex Optics Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50MM sight with Shine Hider and Sunshades on it. I'm also using 10 round Magpul pmags for it since they are higher capacity and cheaper that the 5 shot box magazines Bergara sells. I also have a .308 Winchester – 5/8×24 Threads per Inch linear compensator I can put on it instead of the muzzle break. I also have a never used Crimson Trace 3-9x50 Brushline BDC scope if anyone is interested in it. List price for it is $204.99 but I'd take a little less for it. It's a good scope, second focal plane, but I have problems with second focal plane because it makes me feel like I need to use my reading glasses. My Vortex sight won't get here until Friday so I'll try to get some pictures up next week. Anyone else familiar with Bergaras, Not many people around here (college Station, Texas) are so far.
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 28, 2021 16:39:53 GMT
I've sold a bunch when I was in the industry, and without any reservation regarding their quality. Even at their "entry" level the B-14 is crazy accurate compared to most off-the-rack competitor models. Bergara is a more widely known brand amongst muzzleloaders as they make outstanding barrels for thar niche as well.
The action is very smooth, the accuracy from factory has been consistently good, and the HMR model comes with most of the upgrades people end up buying if they start with a standard Rem 700. Honestly, I'd worry less about breaking in the barrel and more about tuning the load that is optimal for its harmonics. Several of my former coworkers ended up buying HMRs in the very nice but over-marketed 6.5 Creedmoor. With a decent, and affordable, Vortex optic they were grouping extremely well at 1000 yards, especially for a factory model. We had an F-Class competitor who hated the 6.5 Creedmoor round, and that rifle in particular, as it made long range "too easy" so any shmuck could get into long range competitions. I considered that praise rather than complaint.
The only downside to the HMR I recall is that it is a little heavy, which makes it's purpose somewhat unclear. HMR is supposed to stand for Hunter/Match Rifle, but that aluminum chassi makes the package balance poorly for unsupported shooting and heavy to lug around in the woods. While it also performs really well out of the box, it isn't 100% a bench rifle by design either, so it is sort of some of both world but not the best of both. Having said that, I'd settled on either the Bergara B-14 HMR or a Tikka T3 Tactical as my next non-custom rifle buy. More likely I'd buy a used Tikka T3 and rebarrel it, for cost reasons.
Caliber-wise, .308 Win is common and suitable for a variety of needs. If you really stretch the legs of that thing, you will HAVE to learn how to gauge distance accurately, read the wind, and dope shots accordingly. It is both practical and a great training caliber for reaching out to long-range. I know people who can really send them out there, but physics is physics and .308 goes transonic right around that 1000 yard mark, depending on load and elevation (density of atmosphere in your location). Destabilization occurs at that point, so most dedicated long-range shooters use a different caliber that remains supersonic well past 1k.
So, yeah, in short I think you made a great choice that is a proven leader in accuracy and reliability at that price point. The only other rifle I might have recommended looking at would have been a Tikka T3, but if you need a threaded muzzle those tubes are too thin unless you spring for the more expensive Tactical or rebarrel. Just 2 cents from a guy who used to work in firearms operations.
Safety first, always, and looking forward to seeing pictures of your groups. I think you'll be surprised by your first 10 string.
Edit: About the optic. I'd use the honeycomb filter, sunshade, but not both. You'll likely lose a lot of light transmission if you double up. I ordinarily consider the Diamondback line very entry level, but the Diamondback Tacticals have been exceptional at their price. I know someone with the exact same rifle and scope pairing, actually. Don't remember what rings he went with, though. All I know is they had 20 MOA built-in.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Dec 28, 2021 18:58:22 GMT
I'm looking forward to going out and being able to do some shooting again. When I was a teenager I used to shoot .22s all the time and was pretty accurate out to about 250-300 yards (my 5 shot groupings could be covered by a half dollar). Not sure how I will shoot now since some of the medications I have to take cause my hands to have micro-tremors. I have been shooting pistols again and it's actually helped with making my hands steadier so maybe this will help too. I appreciate your feedback on the gun. I went with a .308 over a Creedmoor partially because I have to deal with very large feral hogs on my property at times and I feel better using a .308 on them with the bigger wound channel and larger blood trail so I can find them easier to finish them off if required. You are on the money about the weight of the gun, it is heavier than I'm used to. Now I tend to try and find braced positions for my shots instead of free-standing ones, but the free-standing ones will be more of a challenge. I've found if I do it right, I can wrap my rifle sling around my left arm almost like a brace and it helps a LOT with the weight and balance issues. I was considering getting a Tikka. My dentist who is a competition shooter highly recommends them and has been moving away from the Remington 700 the last 10 years or so and to the Tikka. He still uses Remingtons, just the older more reliable models. I've used the Remington 700s myself and was disappointed to see what they've come to. Normally I would have bought one without a thought. The sunshades I am using are a silicon rubber that bend back so I can have them over the barrel or not as needed. They also work great in the rain and snow. The one on the front also helps protect against scope eye which most of us have gotten at one point or another. Here's a link to a front one at amazon. You can also get them for each end of the scope. www.amazon.com/dp/B07GD7DTNV?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_detailsI'm going to have to re-learn some of the things for shooting at a long distance. I used to shoot to 500 yards regularly 25 years ago and sometimes further. Since I'm a math geek, figuring out the MOA, projectile drop and other things wasn't ever too bad for me, more of a math problem to solve. It will be interesting to see how much some of the modern ammos have changed things. If need be, I can always bug my cousin who went through sniper school and saw a lot of action as one over in the sandbox. He only target shoots now at distances of 1/2 mile or more, says anything else is too easy. I wish I could do that, but I don't wish I went through what he did to accquire that skill.
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 28, 2021 21:26:32 GMT
Thank you for choosing .308 instead of 6.5 Creedmoor or the flavor of the week given your intended use. At most common hunting distances the 6.5 Creedmoor is still traveling too fast to reliably impart it's energy into the target. Now, it's really all about shot placement, but we had just as many reports from hunters of tracking narrow wound-channel through-and-through shots as we had reports of one shot drops.
These days, I'm liking Hornady's offerings for off-the-shelf hunting and match stuff, unless you're willing to pay for Black Hills or something. I even use Hornady projectiles in my subsonic .308 and .300 BLK handloads due to their ballistic coefficient and how reliably the ballistic tips perform. Of course, every barrel is different, so find what works for you.
I also agree with brand choices. I can't get into details due to NDA's but I've interacted professionally with Remington and AAC, back in the day. The AAC people were awesome. The Remington folks... let's just say I don't own any remington firearms anymore. I even sold my PSS.
For ballistics, you can use mobile apps as a temporary crutch while you learn. I like "Shooter" for Android. It's free, but the paid version can also handle coriolis effect etc. I bought the paid version just to support the creator. For iOS, I helped with the QA testing of Knight Armament Corps v2 of the "Bulletflight" app. It's good, but pricy. In either case, one you've settled on a load you can start hand writing your dope cards and begin doing the math with less assistance. Obviously, your friend knows what's up so he'll be able to guide you better than some random dude on the internet.
I think you'll love the Bergara, looking forward to picks of the rig and target!
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 29, 2021 12:49:09 GMT
Looks dope. I'm not that big of a fan of .308 myself but that's entirely personal reasons, not the cartridge's fault. Can't wait to see pics of the final build.
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Post by shotokan on Dec 29, 2021 15:24:51 GMT
That's a really nice rifle.
Last year I was looking for a reliable hunting rifle but couldn't find what I was looking for in .30-06, ended up getting a mossberg patriot predator 5+1 bolt action in .308. I have it paired with a vortex crossfire ii 4-12x44. Even with the ammo shortages, when ammo does hit the shelves .308 is much easier to find than any other caliber on the market.
I typically target shoot with federal premium gold medal sierra matchking 155 gr., and hunt with federal premium trophy copper 150 gr.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Dec 29, 2021 16:29:38 GMT
That's a really nice rifle. Last year I was looking for a reliable hunting rifle but couldn't find what I was looking for in .30-06, ended up getting a mossberg patriot predator 5+1 bolt action in .308. I have it paired with a vortex crossfire ii 4-12x44. Even with the ammo shortages, when ammo does hit the shelves .308 is much easier to find than any other caliber on the market. I typically target shoot with federal premium gold medal sierra matchking 155 gr., and hunt with federal premium trophy copper 150 gr. I use the same ammo for target shooting most of the time unless I'm using Hornady Black when I have the excess cash. Most of the time when I hunt I use American Eagle because I can always find it and I believe it is actually made by Federal and marketed as a "lower" end ammo when it is definitely a higher mid range ammo. The other nice thing with .308, surplus military lots are always popping up and you can snag decent ammo for $.40-.50 a round if you know where to look.
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 29, 2021 17:14:03 GMT
Another nice thing is the wide availability of load data for .308 Win. Yes, I know those pills don't have a sexy BC like some long-range focused calibers, but you can really multi-role well. For example, people do push themselves shooting out towards 1k with it. That's harder than it needs to be, but you learn excellent fundamentals while doing so. It has a long track record of excellent terminal ballistics for ethically hunting from medium range all the way in. And, if you are teaching a new shooter or just want the giggles, that 1 in 10" twist Bergara barrel (vs. Remington's standard 1 in 12 for .308, with a few exceptions) can stabilize 208 gr. Hornady A-Max ontop of a little Trail Boss to make consistent and accurate subsonic loads. I was loading subsonic .308 for use with a can before .300 BLK became a thing. I don't do it as much anymore (because... .300 BLK) but it still puts smiles on faces when you take someone whose been learning on a .22 and put them behind an "intimidating" center-fire for the first time only to feel next to no recoil and have the loudest sound be that of the bullet slapping the target downrange. It helps build confidence, train follow-through, and avoid developing flinch. Then step up to supersonic loads with a can, then take the can off. So, that bergara is kind of an all-in-one platform, from beginner to advanced level. The adjustability of the stock makes it suitable for almost anyone, and if you do get tired of .308 Win and want to focus more on long range precision, keep in mind that .308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor use the same bolt-face and magazine dimensions. You could switch calibers just by rebarreling. I know that's a lot of praise, but honestly the platform sold itself. Can you do better? Of course, but not easily at that price. If you are or know a gunsmith you could potentially custom build from a pawn shop bought action and come close, but chassi systems aren't cheap. The chassi on my Savage below was $600 on its own, but it's also a US company so I was supporting local. 
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Post by 14thforsaken on Dec 30, 2021 10:20:06 GMT
Thank you for choosing .308 instead of 6.5 Creedmoor or the flavor of the week given your intended use. At most common hunting distances the 6.5 Creedmoor is still traveling too fast to reliably impart it's energy into the target. Now, it's really all about shot placement, but we had just as many reports from hunters of tracking narrow wound-channel through-and-through shots as we had reports of one shot drops. These days, I'm liking Hornady's offerings for off-the-shelf hunting and match stuff, unless you're willing to pay for Black Hills or something. I even use Hornady projectiles in my subsonic .308 and .300 BLK handloads due to their ballistic coefficient and how reliably the ballistic tips perform. Of course, every barrel is different, so find what works for you. I also agree with brand choices. I can't get into details due to NDA's but I've interacted professionally with Remington and AAC, back in the day. The AAC people were awesome. The Remington folks... let's just say I don't own any remington firearms anymore. I even sold my PSS. For ballistics, you can use mobile apps as a temporary crutch while you learn. I like "Shooter" for Android. It's free, but the paid version can also handle coriolis effect etc. I bought the paid version just to support the creator. For iOS, I helped with the QA testing of Knight Armament Corps v2 of the "Bulletflight" app. It's good, but pricy. In either case, one you've settled on a load you can start hand writing your dope cards and begin doing the math with less assistance. Obviously, your friend knows what's up so he'll be able to guide you better than some random dude on the internet. I think you'll love the Bergara, looking forward to picks of the rig and target! Actually when I was learning to shoot a rifle, I was taught to do the calculations and do my dope sheets so I've always been comfortable doing them. The one advantage I have is that there a lot of natural shots of both sides of my family. They can pretty much do the calculations in their heads subconsciously. Just to see one time I shot at some targets just using "feel" at 750 yards and then using all the calculations and there was very little difference. The only thing I can come up with is that I'm actually doing the Math without thinking about it. Considering I do that in other areas, it wouldn't be surprising. I've always had a knack for looking at a complicated math problem and just seeing the answer. Now if I am uncertain or shooting at a live target, I do the math because I don't want to be off a little bit and make the animal suffer. When I was learning, I had it hammered into my skull that if you aren't certain you have a kill or crippling shot where you can finish them off, don't shoot. I've always tried to follow that because I would always get furious when I would find dead animals on my posted property that some yahoo shot and winged and it caused that animal to suffer for days in some cases before dying. Really love your gun there. I had considered a suppressor but I didn't feel like paying the fees, doing the paperwork, waiting out the approval process and then shelling out several hundred more dollars. I figure I'll stick with the muzzle brake or the linear compensator and I can always go through the process later.
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 30, 2021 17:36:16 GMT
I used to be a recoil junky. These days, I prefer everything suppressed. If you are interested, do know that you can buy one model that can fit multiple firearms and be rated for many calibers. That gets you more bang (or, I should say, less "bang") for your buck and only one tax stamp. I recommend a dedicated can for each of the following categories though: rimfire, centerfire pistol/sub-gun, and centerfire rifle (high pressure). You can pick which category you use most and buy one to cover that range.
And thank you, I do enjoy the Savage, but the bolt cycles HORRIBLY (it's a Savage...) and that rig probably cost me 2 to 3 times what your Bergara did. Even after some gunsmithing, I'd still consider your stock HMR a superior firearm. They just didn't make factory threaded barrels back when I built this, and the AICS "standard" was still new.
Also, good on you for learning to do the math first. I had many customers wanting to buy a $250 6.5 Creedmoor rifle thinking it would magically be dead-on way out there. You have a quality platform and the mindset to make the most out of it. I love meeting people who are good ambassadors for the hobby, like yourself.
As always, safety first!
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