tera
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Post by tera on Dec 16, 2021 21:34:02 GMT
Do you have content on that channel you can share (if appropriate within forum rules of family friendly content)? I'm interested in seeing your video production style.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Dec 18, 2021 1:23:29 GMT
Need a lot more work on your design, to bulky right now.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 18, 2021 9:24:41 GMT
Making a good sword is so much more than its graphic design.
This looks a bit like a kid drawing a cool car and then asking Ford to make it, sorry.
Good design is functional first and one needs a profund understanding of the functionality before starting with something like design.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 18, 2021 10:02:27 GMT
First try to find out what tasks the sword should fulfill. Then identify the best blade properties for it: Weight, mass distribution, profile and distal taper, fullers, point of balance, pivot points, vibration nodes, edge and tip geometric, steel and heat treatment things like hardness, toughness. Some of this properties depend on each other. Then you have the functional basics to start the design process. I just have a faint idea of the problems to solve and I have some experience with handling very different swords. Experience helps here because it's easier to find out why a sword with the right handling has this right handling than to do all the theoretical stuff. (I fear this is the reason for my sword collection going out of control  ) |
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 18, 2021 17:49:32 GMT
I admit I don't know anything about graphic design, but I agree with Andi on really thinking about the intended usage and desired properties (especially metaluegies of components) as a first step. Form follows function, as it were.
Having more experience in the firearms world, I can only say that in that sphere "form follows funtion" is key. There have been several models designed for a certain "aesthetic" first, operating system concerns later, that turned out to be either jam-o-matics or downright dangerous.
So yes, I'm glad you're thinking about:
1) Primary use (Looks like practical self-defense at home. Carried might push towards a concealable design, like sword canes)
2) Mode of use (looks like thrusting and slashing through layered clothing, not worrying about any sort of body armor)
3) Handling characteristics (likely dictated by requirements of point 1, i.e. CQB in tight spaces such as home/hallways. How long and where is the CG?)
4) Material properties (ease of care, durability, etc. Maybe some form of TH Spring steel? What about furniture materials?)
5) time and materials (a.k.a. cost. How much manual labor and/or machine time is required and hoe much are sourced parts or materials? It sounds like the goal is an affordable, durable sword for the everyman. A Glock of the sword world)
Looking forward to future iterations of your design process. For some reason, a Chinese Jian style appeals to me here, but if we care mostly about slashing then maybe a kukri. Nothing too long or fancy, just functional when a treat is trying to reach out and touch you.
Of course, appropriately lengthed spear, like yari, could keep a threat from getting close. One feature may be to offer different shaft lengths (and appropriate counterweights to keep the CG where you want it). Some people may expect to be defending a hallway from a home invader, but I don't love that way of thinking. You'd have to expose yourself to threat-unknown to some degree to do that. If it is a ballistic threat, you brought a spear to a gunfight.
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Post by alientude on Dec 18, 2021 18:19:22 GMT
Are you under the impression that custom swordsmiths have difficulty selling their swords?
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 18:26:33 GMT
It’s nice that you have the enthusiasm, but I doubt any independent smiths would be interested.
You should take your designs and start learning to actually make swords yourself. Once proficient, yes, you could approach production companies with your prototypes to see if they’d be interested.
It sounds like you don’t have any production capability yourself, you’re just offering design sketches that may or may not translate to real life very well, and marketing through a YouTube channel unrelated to swords. No independent smith will be interested in that. They make their own designs as they see fit, or take custom requests. The profit margin for handmade swords is tiny, so why would they want to share a piece of the pie with you?
The business way to approach this would probably be to make your designs, pay a smith or smiths to make them, and then use your advertising prowess or web skills to resell them yourself. This, scaled up, is how a sword company works.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 18:34:37 GMT
Are you under the impression that custom swordsmiths have difficulty selling their swords? Not in all cases, obviously. It's my understanding that everybody is different. Maybe some have dedicated some of their time to learning how to market their products. Maybe some haven't, and are struggling to figure out how. I'm not trying to browbeat anybody into working with me as a team. If you want to do your thing all by yourself, who am I to say otherwise? I'm not looking for the independent swordsmith. I'm looking for someone who recognizes the value of teamwork and wants to be as successful as they can be. I'm also looking to contribute to the growth of the industry as a whole, which would benefit everybody - including the independent smiths. The more people who are interested in purchasing swords the better for everybody who makes swords, no? If it were as easy for me to buy a quality sword as it is for me to buy a good shotgun, I wouldn't think that the world needs more sword manufacturing companies. Unfortunately though, I have to wait a year or more to get one, so that tells me that there is definitely room for growth on the production side. There's a huge amount of demand relative to the supply. It is nearly as easy. First of all, far more people need shotguns than swords. This drives the diversity of options available for purchase. Second, it is very easy to get a sword, if all you need is a sword. If you want a shotgun right now, you’re stuck with low end production models that are in stock. There are plenty of low end production swords ready to ship to you today. If you want something new and high demand, or niche, or very expensive/fancy and semi-custom, you probably need to look harder and wait for things to be made. This is true of both guns and swords. |
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 18:39:12 GMT
It sounds like you’re a student. Are you actually trying to invest in a business venture or do you just want to get involved with the sword industry any way you can?
If you just want to get your hands on swords, consider offering your services as a free internship of sorts. Offer webpage building, advertising, whatever without asking for a cut of the sales. Build a successful portfolio doing that and maybe you can spin monetized opportunities out of it.
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Post by alientude on Dec 18, 2021 18:39:30 GMT
If I understand you correctly, you want to start a new company that creates high quality production swords, and you would handle the marketing side of things.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 18:57:14 GMT
Not to be picky, but I think the amount of people who NEED a shotgun is far smaller a number than you're making it out to be here. One could argue that a shotgun is a far better home defense weapon than a sword, but that doesn't mean that everybody feels the need to have either. I'd guess that the number of people who need a shotgun is certainly higher than those who need or even want a quality sword, but I think you're downplaying a) the ability of marketing to create the "need" for any given product (that's what marketing is); and b) the quality requirements for shotguns. I can walk into the nearest Walmart (one day, we'll most likely live in a Walmart) and buy a perfectly good shotgun that does exactly what I need it to do without worrying about it falling apart as long as I maintain it properly. Heck, I bought my black powder rifle for under $100, and that thing will blow a hole in a body just as well as any shotgun. I actually imagine it would be difficult to find a gun that just falls apart the first time you try to use it in the manner it was intended to be used. Swords on the other hand......... The reason modern guns don’t explode in your hands or go off when dropped is many millions of Americans buy them every year, and there are industry regulations regarding production standards. |
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 19:41:16 GMT
Well, if you have designs, marketing skills and money to invest, maybe you should be talking to someone in Longquan or India about making your line of swords.
That’s essentially what every company moving a large number of swords does - there’s a business side for marketing, selling, customer service. There’s the designer or designers, and the production overseas to keep costs down enough to turn a profit.
The two companies I’ve had contact with are CAS Iberia and United Cutlery. In those cases there was the U.S. based business side, contracted sword designers (Gus Trim and Kit Rae for the tactical swords I was reviewing), and production facilities in China working to the U.S. business’s specs.
And then downstream was little old me doing a review that gets 10k views and helps drive hesitant sales. Because really, making a YouTube video is the least of what it takes to sell swords and they can find anyone, like me, to do it for them.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 18, 2021 20:32:59 GMT
Well, if you have designs, marketing skills and money to invest, maybe you should be talking to someone in Longquan or India about making your line of swords. That’s essentially what every company moving a large number of swords does - there’s a business side for marketing, selling, customer service. There’s the designer or designers, and the production overseas to keep costs down enough to turn a profit. The two companies I’ve had contact with are CAS Iberia and United Cutlery. In those cases there was the U.S. based business side, contracted sword designers (Gus Trim and Kit Rae for the tactical swords I was reviewing), and production facilities in China working to the U.S. business’s specs. And then downstream was little old me doing a review that gets 10k views and helps drive hesitant sales. Because really, making a YouTube video is the least of what it takes to sell swords and they can find anyone, like me, to do it for them. It's funny you say that, because I was looking at what it would take to get a CNC mill, learn how to use it, then just use stock removal that way to get the blade made. Then I would also need a belt sander, and a forge to make proper fullers and guards/pommels, etc... The CNC mill itself is prohibitively expensive. I just took a course last night on CNC mills/lathes on LinkedIn learning, and that is another massive field of expertise in and of itself, obviously. I would be completely lost in that world. So I checked out the idea of sending my designs to an on-demand CNC milling place, and found cncrapid.com, which I believe is in China. I don't know what their prices are yet, but I imagine they are reasonable. I sent them a request for a quote last night. We'll see how that goes. I think they might even be able to grind the initial bevel for me, so most of the work would be done. Who knows what kind of quality to expect, though. And that's why I'd much rather work with someone who knows and cares about how to make a good-quality sword. I'm sure I can make something else work if I have to, but my first preference is to work with a quality craftsman. Yes, welcome to being a sword smith. You could absolutely get sword blanks CNC’d for you. But that’s only the first part of it. Are you going to do the heat treat? Polishing? Handle fitment? Scabbards? |
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 19, 2021 4:48:15 GMT
Again, I'm loving the positive vibe, so any concerns on my end are as a former Project manager/Software Engineer wanting to help mitigate initial risk.
Anyway, I'm worried about the golden triangle here. "Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two." It sounds like you want high quality product, which we'd all support, and you're okay with them not being cheap, but fast production means a bug setup, like the Longquan forges have. Independent smiths won't have the bandwidth if your marketing campaign succeeds. They may also not be "fast" enough unless you plan on having a good amount of stock pre-made, on-hand.
That is another question. You have interest in selling people on the idea that swordsmanship as a lifestyle, particularly marketing to people who don't currently want or feel thry need a sword. The high cost may make that a hard sell when there are less expensive options.
There are so many shotguns out there not just because they have excellent terminal ballistics in home defense scenarios with minimal over penetration (with regard to structure), but because a reliable Rem 870 or Mossy 500 can be had for little money (at least compared to equally reliable defensive carbine or pistol).
I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I convince someone they need a firearm for home defense, then also manage to convince them that they need an Israeli Tavor X95 (at about $1800) over a used Mossberg 500 (found in almost any pawn shop for ~$300 depending on the climate). That's two big bridges to cross in one conversation.
So, to further the exploration of your idea, I guess I'm wondering what your average customer looks like. What countries, what income level, what makes them open to the idea of a quality sword for personal defense over a ballistic option, how would they be trained in proper use for personal defense? Those are just a few prompts, but you get the idea of what I'm asking. Who is out consumer here, and how do we go from not thinking about swords to deciding your particular high dollar sword is THE choice for personal defense?
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Post by alientude on Dec 19, 2021 5:09:53 GMT
I don't think you're going to get any swordsmith interested until you prove that you can reach and convert the people you claim you can. Having a completely unrelated monetized YouTube channel, having gone to school for marketing, etc. is not going to get them to take time out of their busy days to discuss partnering with somebody who has no track record in the industry.
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tera
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Post by tera on Dec 19, 2021 5:22:14 GMT
Sounds like step one then is a good mutual NDA so you could have confidential conversations with potential partners.
Step two may be a portfolio of web dev work, social media campaigns, successful marketing campaigns, and a list of infosec industry certs. That will help establish credibility and value you bring to the table.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Dec 19, 2021 16:46:54 GMT
I think you guys can stop commenting. Looks like mhishe has deleted his original posts on all his threads. Frankly he sounded like an college student that got excited about swords and was very enthusiastic about getting them made. I can relate. When I was in college and a few times after I did the same thing. Got excited about something, realized there was a problem and wanted to fix it. Then finally realized there was nothing I could do about it. Or got bored and went onto something else.
Edit: Just read the goodbye post he left. Guess he got his feelings hurt.
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Sept 8, 2023 13:16:11 GMT
