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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 16, 2008 4:04:33 GMT
I've been looking for a good one handed sword lately and I have just not been happy with what I'm seeing in the normal SBG price range other than the Atrim practical arming (tuned) but the sharp varients seem to be out of stock. so that leads me to ask a few things: 1 are the sharp tuned Atrims coming back in stock or are they a done run? 2 If I buy a blunt one how hard are they to sharpen? I'm pretty good with stones and paper having learned to sharpen katana well recently I have no worries about my being able to make a really nice sharp apple-seed edge but I want to know how much work I'm in for. 3 are the Atrim practicals a fairly stiff sword? I like stiff blades. 4 where would this sword sit on the Oakeshott type list? ok now for Albion. they cost three to four times as much, or more depending on what you get. obviously they are good swords everyone says so. I am looking at the next gen line norman sword. I know everyone loves the knight and it seems a fine sword but the Norman looks like exactly the blade type I should be using based on my SCA fighting style and my SCA persona's time period and place. I can afford to get the Albion but it will take a little more time to gather the funds. so my questions here: are Albions signifiacntly better cutters than the Atrim tuned practicals? I've heard that Albions have secondary bevels in some reviews, is this just on the squire line or am I going to have to fix the geometry of a Next Gen Norman if I get one? I am getting this sword for cutting, training and practice, it will not be a display item or hung on the wall it will be used to cut tatami and bottles and when I get a pell built it will hit the pell. my shield needs a sharp friend. so chime in all, which way should I go Atrim tuned practical (blunt that I have to sharpen) or Albion Next Gen Norman (Albion - 'nuff said) EDIT: I've been looking at Angus Trim's direct home page and I understand that his stuff is very good. I think I've heard the 1315 is especially nice. but there's very little info on his swords so I have more questions for you all. looking at this page: www.angustrimdirect.com/swordhome.htmwhich (if any) of these swords would be a type Xa or XII (Xa prefered). in other words which ones would similar enough to make comparison to the Albion Norman or Knight (of the Next Gen line) here's the Albion page for refference: www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/swords-albion-mark-nextgen.htmalso what do Atrims tend to cost? specifically the 1315 or whatever sword is most like a Xa (albion Norman) thanks sorry so much to answer.
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Post by enkidu on Sept 16, 2008 4:08:55 GMT
Why not go for an ATrim legacy or maker's mark line ?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 16, 2008 4:18:12 GMT
that's a good question, I just edited to ask about that sort. makers mark and legacy are deffinitely up for consideration. I need to know more about them. I don't see the words "makers mark" or "legacy" anywhere on Angus Trim's page do you have a link? ok found a link myself. so far I like the type X flared shoulders: www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fletcher/Makers_Mark_Folder/Pages/Type_X_-_Flared_Shoulders.html#0I rather like the VA Castille too but man the more I look at that Norman (Albion) the more I like it. and Christian fletcher has some outstanding scabbards. spendy though I'd have to get one later I think
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 4:56:31 GMT
The Albion squire line if you have them sharpen it will have a bevel...but is pretty well done. If you get a next gen, it will be properly sharpened. The Valiant Atrim line are type XII blades...so they lend themselves well to SCA attacks. But it also depends on how you like your SCA swords as well. Mine for example are made hilt heavy on purpose to replicate type XIV-XVIII blades more. Most SCA styles however favor and prefer the type X-XIII blades. So basically, good for you...bad for me . Atrims are nice...and if you don't care about display at all, I would recommend them over albions. They are perfectly servicable swords...they just look very...machined for a lack of a better word. They are practical to the extreme...and as a practical sword, they are really great. I personally like his type XII with the flared shoulder myself hehe . As for sharpening a blunt...it depends on the temper, type of steel, etc etc. I would estimate around 4-6 hours of work though...unless you've had a lot of expierence. You know, I can decorate a cake in 10 min if I had all the proper tools. A cake decorator can do it in 2 .
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 16, 2008 8:48:52 GMT
Ian, it seems most of your questions have been answered, I just wanted to let you know Kult of Athena has the tuned VA (atrim) arming sword in stock since you mentioned it.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 16, 2008 14:45:52 GMT
Ric, on the atrim practical how good of a cutter would you say it is? also how stiff is the blade? I'm concerned about the threaded tang assembly too but I guess after all this time someone would have had a problem if there was going to be problems. I want my next sword to be right the first time. I don't want there to be anything I can complain about. maybe that sounds unrealistic but I've recently collected quite a few katana and while I really like my kaze there are things about it that leave me unsatisfied and that has resulted in me buying more katana and being unsatisfied with those too(I'm hoping the Kokoro Ichi will end that trend). I don't want to buy 3 or 4 swords before I get the arming sword I want. this is why I'm willing to get an Albion or high end Atrim, so be blunt with me, what could I possibly not love about this sword? there are only two things I can think of that I won't love about the Albion, price and paying extra (a lot extra) for a scabbard.
I'm also looking for info on the Atrim Maker's Mark 1315 and the Flared shoulder type X
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 17:31:43 GMT
How about a tinker pierce sharp?
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 16, 2008 17:47:03 GMT
Ian, I'm satisfied with my VA practical arming and it's a one of my best cutters. I'd say it's pretty stiff, less than an inch of movement in the tip when held straight up and hit firmly on the pommel. I've used it pretty hard and have had no problems with durability. Issues. There is that welded on pommel thread, I don't like the idea of it, still I haven't had a problem with mine. I have epoxied the hilt assembley of mine for safety. I know of one case where the thread itself has broken. The cross guard on mine sits slightly crooked, maybe it wouldn't if I turned it around but then again I epoxied it. ;D Doesn't affect the use, just a cosmetic thing, as I got this one for cutting practice not a problem for me. Mine is a bit tip heavy tho not overly so. The "tuned up" ones shouldn't have this issue. If you want one you'll have trouble finding fault with, go with the Albion. They are as close to perfect as I've seen and everyone should have at least one if they can "swing" it. My Poitiers is awesome.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 16, 2008 18:02:57 GMT
the Atrim practical sure sounds good.
Bloodwraith, got a link to the tinker stuff?
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Post by rammstein on Sept 16, 2008 18:04:38 GMT
If I were you, I'd shy away from albion for now.
Albionsdo not make better cutters than Atrims and if you want a performance sword, you'd get more for your money buying an atrim.
Next gen albions are perfectly sharpened with no trace of a bevel, but squire lines will have an obvious bevel to them if you order sharp. The reason why you should shy away from albion is because the reason for the vast difference in price is the amount of research the albion conducts. However this research is for historical accuracy more than practical stuff, so you're paying extra for something you don't appear to want.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 18:10:27 GMT
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 16, 2008 18:20:51 GMT
Rammstein, you make a good point and that's what I wanted to know.
Blood thanks for the link, those are pretty nice looking but seeing as they are untested by anyone I'm feeling a little shy.
oh the agonizing choices!
I definitely will not be getting a squire line Albion. with them it's Next Gen all the way or not at all.
at this point I'm leaning heavily towards the Atrim practical.
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 16, 2008 18:33:53 GMT
Rammy, I'd think it'd depend on the type of Albion as to how good a cutter it was, eh? My Poitiers is a much better cutter than I expected for a type XV, the tip cuts especially impressed me. In the sweet spot it cuts as good as anything I have. Tho, I just reread your post and I agree it isn't a "better" cutter.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 16, 2008 18:43:10 GMT
Ianflaer, You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I wouldn't contradict any of it. I think Rammstein is particularly correct. I have one of the Valiant Armoury Practical Blunt Arming Swords at Gus' place now. It's being reground into a sharp sword. It is an honest Type XII, but is on the heavy side. It will go almost 3 lbs when sharpened, and uses the same pommel as the heavier longswords, if that gives any indication of its handling characteristics. I think it would be best described as a "heavy cutter" with massive power, but maybe lacking in grace and finesse. I wouldn't really rate the 1315 as an Oakeshott Type XII. It "almost" is, but then again it hardly any profile taper and might be best described as a X/XII hybrid. I think Gus Trim would call it a "'tweener." BOTTOM LINE: If I were in your shoes, and knew what I know, I would spend the money on an ATrim single-hander of my choice from the Maker's Mark or Legacy Line, sold by Christian Fletcher. Any of them are good handling swords that are nearly indestructible (like the Albion) and affordable. They also exhibit outstanding handling and performance qualities. I have my eye on the Makers Mark Type XII Flared Shoulders sword for just this reason. The threaded tang and collar-nut, as done by Gus Trim (and Tinker), is a strong and reliable method of assembly. The biggest benefit to hardcore users IMO is that you can easily dismount the blade for customization and repair/resharpening/refinishing of the whole length of the blade. And the price is substantially below an Albion Next Gen sword. The Next Gen Norman looks like an outstanding piece and would likely fill your requirements completely. The only concern would be price. And come on! You don't REALLY think you're only going to own one medieval sword, do ya? Nah, never happen! Also, when you inevitably come to require a good scabbard my highest recommendation goes to our own Brian at DBK Custom Swords. His scabbard work is really outstanding. If I could afford it, I would have 10 more swords in his queue as I type this. Good luck with your choice. I really hope you get what you're looking for.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 18:49:50 GMT
Having had a collection of high dollar swords which included a number of Albion and Atrim, .... here is my 2 cents worth.
When I had to start selling my collection, ...... the Atrims went on the block first. They were good swords, in fact real good swords, but .... as was mentioned above they appeared more "machine shop" made than any of the Albion swords. They were what you would expect a good machine shop to make in a top quality sword.
For me, part of the draw and Aura of the Viking/Medieval sword was the historical heart or soul of the blade. I could see this in all my Albion swords, but it just was not present in the Atrim swords. Good cutters, but the swords just didn't seem to have a soul.
With Albion I got that Viking/Medieval soul, ...... and a top quality sword. It cost more, but I just felt I got more for my money with the Albions. Hard to put into words, but Albions just seemed to be more an investment in something special rather than just another sword.
If the historical nostalgia thing is not important and saving a few hundred bucks is, the Atrims are a good choice.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 16, 2008 18:55:52 GMT
What Zectron said... with one caveat. I have a buncha Atrims and a number of Albions. What he said applies perfectly... except for a couple of heavily customized ATrims. They don't equal the Albions for "heart and soul of the medieval age" but the stock offerings can be brought substantially closer.
What I find is that I pick up an Albion when I want to handle a fine sword, and do some cutting with them for satisfaction. But for the day-in and day-out practice and marathon cutting sessions, the ATrims get a lot more "face time" with me.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 17, 2008 2:37:16 GMT
Shooter, you are absolutely right about not owning only one. I guess what I'm going to do is buy the Atrim Practical Tuned since it is available now and I have the cash now and it is such a good cutter and I'll save up for that Albion I want. if the Atrim 1315 or flared shoulder X or XII were available I'd probably get one of those. 'cause If I gotta wait I might as well wait for the Albion.
Thanks for all the help guys really appreciate it.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 17, 2008 3:27:28 GMT
Aaahh HA! The hook is set! Reel 'em in boys!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 3:47:18 GMT
Well christian does have a nice AT-1557 in stock for 400 . I also like that sword as well hehe . Of course not quite your standard SCA sword. Also I know some SCA fighter prefer the longer Xa blade length on their one handers but if your not one of those and what the sword to be like your SCA sword, maybe the Bayeux might be a better option? I mean the Norman is a nice sword and all, but it's a sword that is far better for horseback then on foot IMHO.
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Post by Brian of DBK on Sept 17, 2008 3:51:53 GMT
I have a couple ATrim swords available. A makers mark XII w/flared shoulders, custom guard, and custom grip. I also have a makers mark XIIA w/accented fullers, and custom grip.
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