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Post by antiquegallery on Nov 5, 2021 12:32:55 GMT
Hello everybody. I bought a saber at an auction, apparently Austrian, what do you say? I cannot find a similar model and understand the brand.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 8, 2021 15:11:14 GMT
The basic design of the hilt looks like a Bavarian Rumford sabre I think. The side bars and the opening in the front guard plate throw me off again. Private order NCO M1788 Rumford? Also cannot make anything of the ricasso stamp. A slightly washed out double eagle? Very interesting and nice sabre though, whatever the make. Looks like the blade tip was modified at some stage, but great buy. Doubly frustrating 'cause I have this feeling I saw that hilt before somewhere, but now I cannot find it anymore. 13th Pferde(?) Train, 4th squad, sabre No.80. Something like that. There is a deeper punchmark under the P(?) it looks like. Maybe try to clean that one out with ammonia and Qtips and see what is hidden down there. Could be a State seal stamp. Went to the DBW gallery, but nothing. Old Swords doesn't seem to have it either. Austria, German states, all nada.
Cheers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 15:53:55 GMT
The scabbard might be a marriage.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 8, 2021 16:58:45 GMT
Yes, I have been thinking along those lines too. The stamps make it a troopers scabbard.
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Post by antiquegallery on Nov 9, 2021 13:15:41 GMT
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 9, 2021 17:46:54 GMT
Here is another variant of the Bavarian M1788 Rumford Officers sabre. Comes somewhat closer. image courtesy of DBW. The reason the tip may have been filed may be that the curve of the (trooper) scabbard is slightly deeper than the curve of the (Officer) blade. Probably to make the blade fit a bit of the tip edge was filled off. Not sure but possible. Cheers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2021 18:29:32 GMT
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 10, 2021 1:23:51 GMT
How on earth did they make a connection with the totally different Württemberg M1817? I am still not sure what the sabre is exactly, an M1788 Bavarian Rumford variant is my best guess, but an M1817 Württemberger sabre it aint. Could be the scabbard is from a Württemberg trooper though. As you said this combination may be a marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2021 2:33:54 GMT
How on earth did they make a connection with the totally different Württemberg M1817? I am still not sure what the sabre is exactly, an M1788 Bavarian Rumford variant is my best guess, but an M1817 Württemberger sabre it aint. Could be the scabbard is from a Württemberg trooper though. As you said this combination may be a marriage. I do believe it was simply going by the scabbard.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 10, 2021 11:24:42 GMT
I think I have found a stamp that looks very much like the washed out stamp on the ricasso of the OP's sabre. The pallasch is Prussian! Prussian M1735 Dragoon broadsword, see Bezdek page 165. So, if this is right at least the blade could be Prussian. The stamp(?) under the P (?) on the scabbard needs to be cleaned and looked at. This is all very funny. Maybe the OP should post the sabre at DBW: www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?s=f29d9b2ab2989ff6dc549e93a5404b18and see what they have to say.
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 25, 2021 9:38:53 GMT
Hello. finally took the saber and took good pictures. I want to share with you, it seems to me that the scabbard is completely suitable for this item and there are no traces of the blade being re-sharpened under the other scabbard. photos.app.goo.gl/m3Mvyik2egAf38i76
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 25, 2021 9:40:26 GMT
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 25, 2021 12:00:32 GMT
Thanks for the new pictures. They are really nice!
I'd say the ricasso stamp looks very much like a Prussian stamp, see the Prussian Dragoon above. One eagle. Austria had the double eagle. Also, the regimental numbering looks like the Prussian system. It could be a Prussian non regulation Officers or NCO model. The Bavarian Rumford hilts and variants thereof were much liked everywhere. Been to DBW?
Cheers.
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 25, 2021 14:01:27 GMT
Thank you . visited the site, but did not publish any messages. wanted to take good pictures first. Will post for discussion soon and add a link to the forum Thanks for the new pictures. They are really nice! I'd say the ricasso stamp looks very much like a Prussian stamp, see the Prussian Dragoon above. One eagle. Austria had the double eagle. Also, the regimental numbering looks like the Prussian system. It could be a Prussian non regulation Officers or NCO model. The Bavarian Rumford hilts and variants thereof were much liked everywhere. Been to DBW? Cheers.
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 27, 2021 17:33:39 GMT
Hello. tried to register on the forum DBW, but my account is not verified. ((Can I ask you to create topic on the forum? Thanks for the new pictures. They are really nice! I'd say the ricasso stamp looks very much like a Prussian stamp, see the Prussian Dragoon above. One eagle. Austria had the double eagle. Also, the regimental numbering looks like the Prussian system. It could be a Prussian non regulation Officers or NCO model. The Bavarian Rumford hilts and variants thereof were much liked everywhere. Been to DBW? Cheers.
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Post by Pino on Dec 27, 2021 19:37:28 GMT
It's most likely a South German officer sword but the scabbard doesn't belong to it: it's from a 1817 Wurttemberg trooper model (check the drag form, only found with them).
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 28, 2021 10:08:47 GMT
This marking may not help in anything, but pay attention to it.
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Post by Pino on Dec 29, 2021 0:05:09 GMT
Here are pics of specimen of 1817 and they have the same unit marking of the Train Batt. no 13 (either as Proviant of Horse depot) and scabbard drag form + screws emplacement and serial numbers of the same type; even the obscure M shaped stamp is similar to the one just below:
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Post by antiquegallery on Dec 29, 2021 8:13:57 GMT
thanks for the photo, very interesting information Here are pics of specimen of 1817 and they have the same unit marking of the Train Batt. no 13 (either as Proviant of Horse depot) and scabbard drag form + screws emplacement and serial numbers of the same type; even the obscure M shaped stamp is similar to the one just below:
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Post by Pino on Dec 30, 2021 4:55:55 GMT
Ok found the model; it seems to be a South German sword from the state/Kingdom of Bade and for officers of Landwehr/Volunteer mounted units c. 1812-1813. Here's a pic from Gerd Maier's book on South German swords; the form is identical but the hilt is more decorated. It is described as a Rittmeister's pallasch with straight blade but yours is curved and most likely so simply because they were private purchases and made according to the officer's preference. SBG: 1 Other forums: 0
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