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Post by mungee on Oct 18, 2021 11:13:01 GMT
I'm having problems doing this - has anyone out there had any experience of this?
I recently acquired an SS dagger (circa 1934) on an online auction, in the US, and I'm having trouble getting the dagger to South Africa - DHL, UPS etc are saying that they don't courier knives/blades.
Any advice on this would be appreciated.
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tera
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Post by tera on Oct 18, 2021 15:37:07 GMT
I'm certainly no expert on international import/export Law or SA's weapons laws, but a brief search seems to indicate that common knives are not forbidden from importation.
Maybe reach out to the South African Department of Trade, Industry and Competition and ask them if this would be in compliance with their laws/regulations and, if so, how they recommend going about it?
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Post by mungee on Oct 26, 2021 10:02:33 GMT
I'm certainly no expert on international import/export Law or SA's weapons laws, but a brief search seems to indicate that common knives are not forbidden from importation. Maybe reach out to the South African Department of Trade, Industry and Competition and ask them if this would be in compliance with their laws/regulations and, if so, how they recommend going about it? Thank you. I'm reluctant to approach the Dept of Trade and Industry at this stage (I've already bought the dagger!!) - there's that expression "don't put up skittles to get them knocked down" and people who don't know/are unsure of laws/regulations will inevitably opt for the safe answer - in this case, the importation of any knife into South Africa is a dangerous weapon and is prohibited - as someone said earlier, in this thread, almost every item is capable of being used as a dangerous weapon!! I know of a person who has, on two occasions (and in recent years), imported historic daggers into South Africa without any problem. In South Africa there are many traditional spears (assegais) that are fashioned by many of our indigenous people, as a self-defense/assault weapons and these are often freely displayed at protest marches etc - one can also go to virtually any hardware shop in the country and purchase an extremely dangerous/lethal panga/machete with no problem at all - it would be bizarre for the SA authorities to get nasty about the importation of an historic dagger ... but then people in positions of authority are often quite unpredictable! I'll wait and see (and hope!!).
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 26, 2021 12:21:27 GMT
I’ve no experience with Africa but have had DHL transport kukris to me from Nepal and know from experience sometimes it depends on the description of the item ie a sword is classified as a weapon but a replica to hang on the wall is viewed differently. I’d first say find out where the stoppage is. Is it due to an import law or the carrier? USPS should not object but as above find out where the stoppage is, then start from there.
Here’s an example that I just thought of. Recently I’ve had two kukris, separate orders, stopped along the way, not by DHL, but a country they were passing through and reclassified as swords by some desk jockey. One had a 13” blade and the other 15”. A sword? I was able to convince them they were tools and not swords (weapons).
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tera
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Post by tera on Oct 26, 2021 16:47:15 GMT
Knowing what to classify the items as in a way that is legal would help with that. I recommend consulting legal counsel or the governing body, but from googling it appears that "dangerous goods" are defined in SANS 10228. That may be helpful to reference in such conversations.
Not to be a stick-in-the-mud but, if I read your reply correctly, you believe these to be restricted items and do not want to ask the regulating authority how to import them for fear or the answer being "No". If I misread, I apologize. If I am understanding rightly, though, that is a stated intent to bring prohibited items into your country regardless of law and seeking advice on how to do so.
There are things prohibited or restricted in the US that make no sense, so I share your frustration, but since I care about our community I worry for your personal safety if you planned on going against your country's laws. Keep in mind that, if illegal and if caught, the authorities may well scour your social media presences and a post asking how to bypass import bans surely is harmful to defense in any legal system.
Personally, I don't know the laws down there so I still encourage you to seek information about them and find a "proper" way to import them. For example, are their exemptions for reproductions or purely fantasy/prop pieces? Are field tools allowed, and could these be classified as such? Are there exemptions for collectors (licensed or otherwise)? Getting someone's blessing, while requiring effort, may be less painful than begging forgiveness (in court).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 18:49:28 GMT
Respectfully, shall we first look at the 2014 legislation. www.gov.za/south-africa-ushers-new-dangerous-weapons-actThere is nothing regarding import mentioned. Possession exceptions read as "The mere possession of a dangerous weapon during a gathering or demonstration constitutes an offence, but possession of dangerous weapons will not necessarily lead to arrest if the circumstances for carrying are found to be due to the pursuit of any lawful employment, duty or activity, during participation in any religious or cultural activities, law sport, recreation or entertainment, and for legitimate collection, display or exhibition of weapons." That covers public possession outside of ownership itself and does not restrict the ownership itself. Making mountains out of mole hills are a typical past time on forums and I don't claim any overly astute awareness but the posts from mungee express a bit of uncertainty without apparently knowing the facts. The USPS will ship an artifact without any issues and then tuned over to the SA postal system. The seller should be able to manifest it correctly and without any issues. One SA blade exporter that comes to mind is Burger Canes, another James Raw and there are a host of other bladesmiths there, so the whole discussion here seems a bit of worry for nothing. Good luck GC
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tera
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Post by tera on Oct 26, 2021 22:36:29 GMT
All with good intentions. There are firearm configurations legal for manufacture and ownership in the US that are illegal for imported firearms, as an analogy. Not being an authority on South African import law, I felt the recommendation to get correct info from an official authority prudent and considerate advice. I'm sorry if that offended.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 0:32:14 GMT
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Post by bas on Oct 27, 2021 3:24:09 GMT
Before we discuss the legalities of importing a dagger into South Africa (which I would hope Mungee researched before purchasing such an expensive item), we need to know where the hold-up is. As Pgandy correctly states.
Courier companies have become significantly more twitchy with carrying 'weapons' in the last couple of years and it may be that the issue is with their policies rather than a legal one. It may be necessary to pass the dagger on to a company that specializes in shipping antiques or collectable weapons. They will have an account with the freight companies and be able to bypass all their 'Policy' BS.
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Post by tensho on Oct 28, 2021 1:46:19 GMT
I'm assuming you talked to some random person at UPS. UPS, FedEx and USPS you can ship knives, swords and firearms(United states) through.
As far as your import laws go, I have no clue. But there doesn't seem to be a law on importing them. Then again, how the customs forms are filled out and if someone decides to be an A-hole at customs in your country is a whole other story(They might get triggered by the symbols on it)
Maybe you should try asking on bladeforums. There may be a few collectors from SA that have gone through this.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Oct 28, 2021 3:33:49 GMT
I've ever had any problems shipping through USPS, just mark it has wall art.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 28, 2021 11:51:19 GMT
😁
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