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Post by raf on Oct 13, 2021 9:48:57 GMT
Hi,
my Hanwei Kami Katana arrived and upon inspection of the blade, I noticed these in the hamon line. Are those flaws?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by mrbadexample on Oct 13, 2021 9:55:08 GMT
Are they flush with the surface, or can you feel them with a fingernail? The first picture looks bad, but the picture closest to the habaki seems strange.
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Post by raf on Oct 13, 2021 10:14:44 GMT
I could not feel anything when running over those with my fingernail.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 13, 2021 10:45:18 GMT
Here's a link to a site showing typical flaws www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/flaws.htmlFrom the pictures and your fingertip feeling it may be just cosmetic flaws, but I'm no expert.
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Post by raf on Oct 13, 2021 11:24:29 GMT
I noticed something else, the Yokote appears to be bulged and it looks like the hamon is slightly missing at the blade.
Should I contact the vendor?
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 13, 2021 13:58:46 GMT
I can't decide if some of the lines are just where the etchant caught a little harder or actual open grain. Whatever's going on at the yokote seems really weird, though.
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Post by raf on Oct 13, 2021 15:43:18 GMT
Pinged the vendor, he said what we see is the hada and there appears to be nothing wrong with it.
Would you agree? Asking because this is my first katana, so I really don't have any expertise on this topic.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Oct 13, 2021 21:41:15 GMT
As a sword maker these to me are big flaws, some of them are bad welds. Since this is a powered steel folded sword there is no telling the other flaws we can not see inside the blade.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 13, 2021 22:24:00 GMT
I'm gonna side with Driggers on this one. Yes, it's hada, or rather an artifact of layered construction, but not one you're supposed to be able to see. Those are definitely open welds. I'm still stumped by the yokote, though.
Edit: Generally speaking, open welds in-and-of-themselves are not inherently fatal to a sword blade, but any decent, self-respecting smith would not let them leave their shop. On a scale like Hanwei's, though, they're probably seen as negligible concern.
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Post by raf on Oct 13, 2021 22:54:06 GMT
Okay, since I paid the equivalent of approx. 1900 USD with shipping (pricey Europe), I assume I should get this sent back? My request regarding a replacement was met with the above response, that the seller doesn't see anything wrong with it. However, I can cancel the whole contract within 2 weeks and send it back, meaning I would (should) get the money back. I guess no Kami Katana for me, as they're not made any more. Looked for alternatives, the Celestial Katana looked good, but appears to be out of stock everywhere. Is there currently a global Katana shortage?
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 13, 2021 23:04:54 GMT
Unfortunately, the model has been discontinued for several years now, so you won't be getting another one unless you get very lucky and find someone who doesn't want theirs anymore. Even then, odds are the condition will not be as good as this one, even with the flaws.
If the seller believes the sword is fine as-is, the seller is either not sufficiently informed or is merely saying the forge openings will not negatively impact the sword's performance. Ultimately, they're not wrong, but for nearly $2k I don't want a sword with bad welds, even if the sword is a model now very, very hard to find.
As for katana shortage, well, China's still reeling from the whole COVID thing, as is a good part of the rest of the world, so a lot of stuff just isn't as available as it used to be.
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Post by raf on Oct 15, 2021 8:28:31 GMT
Okay, thanks for the replies and infos so far, appreciate it. Since the vendor did not seem too interested in replacing it, I am about to return it. But I guess this will be influenced by the following questions: *) Is the sword itself, apart from the aesthetics, impacted by what we see on the photos? Driggers says that this is quite possible, while others point out that these are cosmetic flaws only. So I guess the question if the sword just isn't perfect, or if it's faulty, is relevant here for me. *) If I ever wanted to sell this, how much value is lost due to these flaws, IF those are cosmetic only? I have to add, after taking a look at various light conditions - much of what I photographed seems to be less bad as it looks on the photos. However, the flaw close to the Habaki is prominent and the black part on the Yokote's edge is, depending on the light conditions, either black-ish looking, or has a kind-of shiny look. I also think the geometry of the Kissaki is slightly off, which is again more prominently seen on the photos. I guess I'm struggling with myself here too
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 15, 2021 13:59:40 GMT
Little room for replacement as there likely aren't any more, but as for whether your blade is impacted, structurally, by open grains...the answer is a muddy maybe. "It depends" how bad they are, what's under the surface, whether anything can get in there and wreak havoc unseen.
With all that said, I'm afraid the blade has no resale value. Few people will buy modern-made swords with visible, even just aesthetic flaws. If you keep this sword, it's yours forever. Unless some kind soul takes it off your hands for much less than you paid...
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Post by treeslicer on Oct 15, 2021 16:06:21 GMT
Guys, the black lines in the hamon look more like kinsuji (a form of activity) to me, not flaws. The thing by the habaki I'm not sure about how to classify it.
In other words, "it's not a bug, it's a feature".
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 15, 2021 17:03:40 GMT
Hmm... Maybe?
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Post by raf on Oct 15, 2021 17:25:48 GMT
I do agree that the horizontal lines on the photos are MUCH less prominent to the naked eye, I used the flash to bring out details. So at this point, I would guess those are, in fact, normal / the hada. I can make some more photos over the weekend to show what the blade looks like to the naked eye.
The circle-ish thing near the Habaki however is very well visible (3rd pic in the first post), as is the edge-sided dark / shiny spot on the Yokote (first and last pic of my second post with pictures) - of which I still have no idea what that is, I could not find much on the internet regarding both of these things.
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Post by treeslicer on Oct 15, 2021 19:18:36 GMT
On the first 3 photos, I'm convinced that you are seeing activities (the Japanese word, hataraki, means "earned", or "accomplishment", same word used for "salary") made of crystals (nie or nioi) formed during a good DH quench. It's really a good thing, and nothing to freak out over.
If you can look at it under a magnifier and see lots of shiny little crystals in the patterns, that would settle it. It's normal in a good DH folded-steel blade. Besides the artistic aspect, blades with lots of hataraki are expected to hold a better edge.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Oct 16, 2021 3:50:09 GMT
The first picture is a bad forge weld,
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Post by raf on Oct 16, 2021 4:25:48 GMT
Made a few more, this time not daylight, but kitchen lighting. Also tried to get the Yokote under a magnifying glass to find out what it is - taking a photo like that is a true pain in a certain body part though.
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Post by treeslicer on Oct 16, 2021 4:28:36 GMT
The first picture is a bad forge weld, I'd have to see it in hand. The OP says their nail doesn't catch on it, and the enlarged photos look to me like cementite structures. Compare it with some of the structures near the habaki that can't possibly be cracks. Note that the whole hamon area is rich in ara-nie, and the blade looks very nie-deki. Crystals everywhere they could form.
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