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Post by viece on Oct 2, 2021 22:39:32 GMT
SBG folks, I'm devastated to report that during a monthly cleaning/inspection I accidentally dropped one of my favorite antiques on its tip and the blade broke right at the location of a period repair. As I detailed here... sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/58675/antique-italian-broadsword-1550...when I got the sword I used the clamp-and-dowel method to straighten it, so I'm sure I stressed the blade then as well. The break is ragged and nasty, with lots of huge grains, cracking, delamination, staining from previous corrosion, etc -- it's clear it's been hurting for a long time. Looking for any insights about how best to put it back together with minimal damage to the patina. Of course this does not need to be a fully functional repair; this is an excavated condition item nearly 500 years old, so I'm not going to be cutting anything with it! But ideally I would like to be able to display and handle it as one piece again, and not have a huge, nasty scar or color change in this lovely chocolatey patina. JB Weld? Bob Smith 2-part epoxy? Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 0:15:01 GMT
Professionally welded and then you can grind that down some and patinate.
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Post by pellius on Oct 3, 2021 0:40:44 GMT
Major bummer! I offer my sincere sympathies.
You might also consider a dab of clear-drying polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla Glue.
It wouldn’t be a functional or period-correct repair, of course, but it would hold the broken piece in place for display just fine. Cheap, fast, and nearly invisible. Also, very very permanent, for better or worse.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 3, 2021 13:31:03 GMT
Oh man! I know that ruined your day.
I’ve never tried Gorilla Glue. I understand it’s strong, but expands on drying. I’d make a stab at Locktite. I’ve only used their 242 and on nothing like that. I’m impressed with the 242 as it’s is their weakest but has repaired several of my swords that began to have loose grip issues. Do a search for Locktite on Amazon to see their various offerings and choose the one that you think will best fit your need. I would not recommend you using the sword afterwards. Good luck.
Just thought of another possible solution and that is Acraglas, also sold by Amazon. That is intended as a stock bedding aid and I like it because they supply a release agent with the kit. It is an extremely strong bonding compound. You will not need the release agent, just mix the resin and hardener together in the same portion as recommended, but not as recommended as that will be way too much. Get a sheet of wax paper to mix the two together on rather than the supplied cup as you will need much less for you job.
I don’t know which will be better for your purpose nor if one will interfere with the other if one should fail. The Locktite will be the easiest to use with the fastest set up time. The 242 requires 20 minutes to set.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 14:20:50 GMT
Grind, weld (fill), grind, finish.
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Post by viece on Oct 4, 2021 0:53:29 GMT
Thanks all. I've found a metal restoration specialist in another city and plan to take it there in a few weeks while attending a scientific conference. I'll let you know how it goes.
On a more general note, this whole situation really took the wind out of my sails about collecting. I'm considering getting rid of most of my antiques and just keeping a few very special ones. I just can't enjoy them right now, knowing that I so profoundly damaged my favorite. Looking at my wall display gives me a sick feeling now. Still, I guess I shouldn't take any drastic steps until after I see how the repair turns out.
Again, thanks.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 4, 2021 2:51:29 GMT
Good luck. Please don't fail to let us know the outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 3:17:12 GMT
Thanks all. I've found a metal restoration specialist in another city and plan to take it there in a few weeks while attending a scientific conference. I'll let you know how it goes. On a more general note, this whole situation really took the wind out of my sails about collecting. I'm considering getting rid of most of my antiques and just keeping a few very special ones. I just can't enjoy them right now, knowing that I so profoundly damaged my favorite. Looking at my wall display gives me a sick feeling now. Still, I guess I shouldn't take any drastic steps until after I see how the repair turns out. Again, thanks. I have a five-baller eagle and I broke the knuckle bow while trying to fix what wasn't bent. It has been glued a couple of times but needs to be brazed by a jeweler (or me if I had shop space). The lump of glue always makes a point.One of my forever on my lists example and a reminder to rest first. I straightened a quite bent smallsword and it was no simple feat. Done slowly, pulling and pushing by hand over a bar and waiting for the "tink" of death. It still has a slight S but I live with it, it is straight otherwise. I have cracked a few blades. Good luck and don't quit over one oops. You have been conscientious and eager as an eclectic collector with a great eye. I am not sure which of us is standing in line for the other to sell but wait. The market has gone crazy this past year with inflated pricing. That might seem to benefit a seller but it is ruining the market overall. I still see neat stuff that might suit you. I have taken an approach of "no more projects" Cheers GC
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Post by pellius on Oct 4, 2021 13:24:18 GMT
Glad you have a plan of action!
I would also encourage you to take some time before leaving the hobby.
For whatever it’s worth, a number of my favorite swords were repaired at some point in their history. (Pristine antiques were always outside my meager budget, even before the market went nuts.) Professional repair seems to have been a normal part of a sword’s life.
Your sword is fortunate to have such a conscientious caretaker.
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Post by viece on Oct 4, 2021 13:39:39 GMT
Great points, thank you for the encouragement. Don't worry, I've stepped back from the ledge now. Who am I kidding; several of my pieces came from E.B. Erickson himself; they're far too special to let go!
In particular, edelweiss, thanks for the kind words. You are SBG's reigning antique sage so that means a lot. And re selling, I do have a big spadroon-shaped hole in my collection, after all...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 14:50:41 GMT
Looking is almost as much fun.
I'm hardly a reigning anything and we all find our particular niche. Considered to be a sage is a large compliment. Thank you.
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Post by glendon on Oct 4, 2021 16:03:28 GMT
At the severe risk of serious offense to the genuine antiquarian, from a mere enthusiast, two lines of thought:
1) Quick calculations suggest you have about 21" of blade remaining. Economy being a real thing, both now and in 1550, why not carefully grind it down a bit more, retaining the patina, into an "ale-house" sort of parrying short sword/long dagger as might be done historically by a fighting man unwilling to throw away a still-useful tool? I mention this only because it has already been deflowered, as it were, between the break and the modern grip, and you were discussing the possibility of physically-altering the original steel by welding anyway. A more complete bastardization and act of rapine might be to grind the complex guard into bilateral-symmetry; but then I have a certain unholy view of antiques, being a fan of Lovejoy.
2) Display it as is, and let the viewer see the steel underneath, alongside a magnifying glass if possible. It may not be a good "collector's antique", but its a helluva teaching tool to see the historical results of "repairing" a sword.
Feel free to curse me roundly!
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Post by viece on Oct 5, 2021 0:49:55 GMT
At the severe risk of serious offense to the genuine antiquarian, from a mere enthusiast, two lines of thought: 1) Quick calculations suggest you have about 21" of blade remaining. Economy being a real thing, both now and in 1550, why not carefully grind it down a bit more, retaining the patina, into an "ale-house" sort of parrying short sword/long dagger as might be done historically by a fighting man unwilling to throw away a still-useful tool? I mention this only because it has already been deflowered, as it were, between the break and the modern grip, and you were discussing the possibility of physically-altering the original steel by welding anyway. A more complete bastardization and act of rapine might be to grind the complex guard into bilateral-symmetry; but then I have a certain unholy view of antiques, being a fan of Lovejoy. 2) Display it as is, and let the viewer see the steel underneath, alongside a magnifying glass if possible. It may not be a good "collector's antique", but its a helluva teaching tool to see the historical results of "repairing" a sword. Feel free to curse me roundly! Not offensive at all! Good ideas, actually. We've all seen pieces shortened during working life, after all. Another of my favorites is a 16th/17th-c. German bauernwehr that probably lost 20-40% of its blade at some point, and it's still a fantastic, beefy little knife. And as to your #2, I love museum displays (I work in an associated field), so that idea has a lot of appeal. But ultimately I love handling it most, so I'll probably Narsil it per edelweiss.
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Post by viece on Nov 1, 2021 16:34:59 GMT
Update! Colonial Brass, a metal restoration shop in Houston, TX, managed to weld the blade back together. Here it is back in its top slot on my rack. I tried using vinegar and salt to re-patinate the area but that didn't work well, so I ended up coloring the repaired area with black, brown, and red pencils from my kids' art box and then blending it all with my finger and some Renaissance Wax. It turned out far better than I allowed myself to hope. What a relief! Now I just need to stop dropping things while cleaning...
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Post by viece on Nov 1, 2021 18:19:37 GMT
Another view. The side above is smoother; this is the "bad" side. You can see a lumpy area about two-thirds of the way down. But it's not bad at all given the state of this thing. I'm still stunned they managed it; in cross-section the steel looked like the inside of a Kit-Kat candy bar.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2021 20:26:43 GMT
Well done!
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Post by viece on Nov 2, 2021 21:20:43 GMT
Thanks! Now for some backyard cutting.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Nov 3, 2021 15:22:57 GMT
And here I was hoping you'd make a cryptic display of 'The Sword Once Broken'.
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Nov 3, 2021 19:19:01 GMT
Very nice!
As a general point, if anyone has an antique that they break and cannot repair, here's an idea for what you might do with it: see if a metallurgy/archaeology scientist would like to analyze the broken part of the blade. It could teach us a lot about the metal used, the forging techniques, etc.!
However, I am very glad you got your favourite sword back together in one piece and everything!
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