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Post by MichaelRS on Sept 14, 2021 7:13:35 GMT
Bah, buy an antique, better handling, less sloppy fittings and I've heard one of them broke by opening a letter. 😁
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Post by armond on Sept 14, 2021 9:25:04 GMT
I have heard that Universal Swords has improved as of late with distal taper giving a more accurate POB.
For me, after handling the real thing I cant do repros... I remember handling my first antique ( funnily enough an 1860) at a local antique store and just being floored how much better it felt in my hand than any repro I had handled; it felt light and 'lively' when compared to the nose heavy repros I had bought. ...and that was the end, haven't bought another repro since.
Having said that I find American Civil War antique Sabres to be massively over priced when you can pay a fraction of that price for the original French Sabre that the Americans copied.
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Post by jack88 on Sept 14, 2021 11:57:36 GMT
I have heard that Universal Swords has improved as of late with distal taper giving a more accurate POB. For me, after handling the real thing I cant do repros... I remember handling my first antique ( funnily enough an 1860) at a local antique store and just being floored how much better it felt in my hand than any repro I had handled; it felt light and 'lively' when compared to the nose heavy repros I had bought. ...and that was the end, haven't bought another repro since. Having said that I find American Civil War antique Sabres to be massively over priced when you can pay a fraction of that price for the original French Sabre that the Americans copied. Nail on head, you'll buy some repros at first that have a good reputation for distal taper etc etc, then eventually buy a low end antique and realize how vastly superior they are in every way, at that point the obsession will begin
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Post by pellius on Sept 14, 2021 12:36:04 GMT
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Post by armond on Sept 15, 2021 6:07:05 GMT
'The obsession will begin' Truer words have never been spoken. I thought I had no interest in antiques...until I held one.
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Post by MichaelRS on Sept 16, 2021 5:31:14 GMT
'The obsession will begin' Truer words have never been spoken. I thought I had no interest in antiques...until I held one. Well, I know this is different, but I sometimes cringe at the word "antique". I grew up in an antique house. Meaning my mother was an interior decorator and part-time antique dealer who specialized in Victorian and early American. If it wasn't for the electric lights or the TV in the corner you would think you were time-warped into another century when in some of the rooms of our house. I don't mean any kind of cluttered, it was very well-appointed just... different from the other kids houses 😆 But as far as swords go, I get your meaning.
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Post by julio_corradi on Sept 22, 2021 7:50:32 GMT
I think Hagataka summed it up very well. It really comes down to marketing and market demand. There just isn't the interest in sabers as there is in other swords like medieval European and Japanese. You can thank Hollywood for a lot of that. What is interesting to "pop culture' will create a demand. Sabers just aren't "cool" in the minds of the public. there is plenty of demand for real sabres.. but producing them is difficult.. the sheath is complex and hard to produce. you can see most makers cannot make european medieval leather scabbards either.. but a metal scabbard needs dies and many parts and is brazed togeather.. you need dies for it and a mandrel .. the handles of sabres are complex to produce. in mass production it is very different from making one at a time... those european sabers were made in large numbers using machines.. or were make in peices externally and assembled by skilled cutlers. the blade profiles of military sabers are very complex to get right.. they have amyn more aspects in them than many other swrd types.. even if we dont think so by looking at them.. a parang or a katana by comparison are quite forgiving to make and you can get many things wrong without the consumer noticing.. they are stiff cutting blades. the blade of lets say.. a 1845 british infantry officers sabre is very complex.. this blade was not made by hand.. but by a rolling die.. a special machine that rolled the blade, extruded it.. the blade spine, ricasso, tang, taper ect is actuially all pretty complex and to grind that by hand on a belt grinder would take many many steps.. and much skill. you could make good sabre blades of these types with a cnc mill but its $$ and slow unless you have many mills.. or you can forge them with a open die but then have to have the different dies made for each step for each blade pattern.. you have alot of time grinding and finishing the open die forging and its hard to get a finish compareable to the originals wihtout special grinding wheels you need to make your self... the handles have many specific parts , each aspect has a special function, you would need good moulds of the originals and then need to hand carve many features into the metal fittings... all this can be done but it must be done by a company with these skills - a factory for example.. . or a simple sabre ends up costing more than a medieval sword and is much eaiser to get wrong.. good military type sabres for a lone knife maker are just very hard ot reproduce. . just as not many attempt good roman swords (which are simplier).. there is many aspects especially in the metal decoraiton that in a peice by peice production would take a great deal of time to make. there is some good makers of accurate sharp military reproduction swords.. but in the anglosphere they are unknown. im sure if they were sold at a fair price people would buy them. but as there is so much junk swords in thsi catagory on the market and good offerings are not available to most consumers.. (north america is after all the lead market) then the sellers are happy to sell an indian made swords for a keen profit.. even if it only looks a little like the original at close inspection.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 10:10:38 GMT
I think Hagataka summed it up very well. It really comes down to marketing and market demand. There just isn't the interest in sabers as there is in other swords like medieval European and Japanese. You can thank Hollywood for a lot of that. What is interesting to "pop culture' will create a demand. Sabers just aren't "cool" in the minds of the public. there is plenty of demand for real sabres.. but producing them is difficult.. the sheath is complex and hard to produce. you can see most makers cannot make european medieval leather scabbards either.. but a metal scabbard needs dies and many parts and is brazed togeather.. you need dies for it and a mandrel .. the handles of sabres are complex to produce. in mass production it is very different from making one at a time... those european sabers were made in large numbers using machines.. or were make in peices externally and assembled by skilled cutlers. the blade profiles of military sabers are very complex to get right.. they have amyn more aspects in them than many other swrd types.. even if we dont think so by looking at them.. a parang or a katana by comparison are quite forgiving to make and you can get many things wrong without the consumer noticing.. they are stiff cutting blades. the blade of lets say.. a 1845 british infantry officers sabre is very complex.. this blade was not made by hand.. but by a rolling die.. a special machine that rolled the blade, extruded it.. the blade spine, ricasso, tang, taper ect is actuially all pretty complex and to grind that by hand on a belt grinder would take many many steps.. and much skill. you could make good sabre blades of these types with a cnc mill but its $$ and slow unless you have many mills.. or you can forge them with a open die but then have to have the different dies made for each step for each blade pattern.. you have alot of time grinding and finishing the open die forging and its hard to get a finish compareable to the originals wihtout special grinding wheels you need to make your self... the handles have many specific parts , each aspect has a special function, you would need good moulds of the originals and then need to hand carve many features into the metal fittings... all this can be done but it must be done by a company with these skills - a factory for example.. . or a simple sabre ends up costing more than a medieval sword and is much eaiser to get wrong.. good military type sabres for a lone knife maker are just very hard ot reproduce. . just as not many attempt good roman swords (which are simplier).. there is many aspects especially in the metal decoraiton that in a peice by peice production would take a great deal of time to make. there is some good makers of accurate sharp military reproduction swords.. but in the anglosphere they are unknown. im sure if they were sold at a fair price people would buy them. but as there is so much junk swords in thsi catagory on the market and good offerings are not available to most consumers.. (north america is after all the lead market) then the sellers are happy to sell an indian made swords for a keen profit.. even if it only looks a little like the original at close inspection. “The present method of manufacturing sword blades of the best quality in England is very simple. The steel is made in Sheffield and sent to the sword cutlers in Birmingham in lengths sufficient to form two blades; the best cast steel is employed; each end is then drawn out by forging to about half the thickness of the bar, leaving a few inches in the centre of the original size, each end, in turn, serving as a handle to hold it by while forging the other; it is afterwards notched and broken in two at the centre and the tang, which is of iron, is welded on to the thick end by splitting open one end of the tang, or that part that enters the handle, and the forging of the blade is completed to the desired pattern.”After 1885, when Wilkinson started rolling blades, the tangs were formed on the Ryder and this combination continued up until 2005. Here are their operations for blade forging from a 1902 document:www.fordemilitaryantiques.com/articles/2019/12/29/wilkinsons-swords-by-robert-wilkinson-lathamwww.fordemilitaryantiques.com/articles/2020/1/22/wilkinsons-swords-part-two-by-robert-wilkinson-latham
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Post by armond on Sept 23, 2021 6:16:52 GMT
I think Hagataka summed it up very well. It really comes down to marketing and market demand. There just isn't the interest in sabers as there is in other swords like medieval European and Japanese. You can thank Hollywood for a lot of that. What is interesting to "pop culture' will create a demand. Sabers just aren't "cool" in the minds of the public. there is plenty of demand for real sabres.. but producing them is difficult.. the sheath is complex and hard to produce. you can see most makers cannot make european medieval leather scabbards either.. but a metal scabbard needs dies and many parts and is brazed togeather.. you need dies for it and a mandrel .. the handles of sabres are complex to produce. in mass production it is very different from making one at a time... those european sabers were made in large numbers using machines.. or were make in peices externally and assembled by skilled cutlers. the blade profiles of military sabers are very complex to get right.. they have amyn more aspects in them than many other swrd types.. even if we dont think so by looking at them.. a parang or a katana by comparison are quite forgiving to make and you can get many things wrong without the consumer noticing.. they are stiff cutting blades. the blade of lets say.. a 1845 british infantry officers sabre is very complex.. this blade was not made by hand.. but by a rolling die.. a special machine that rolled the blade, extruded it.. the blade spine, ricasso, tang, taper ect is actuially all pretty complex and to grind that by hand on a belt grinder would take many many steps.. and much skill. you could make good sabre blades of these types with a cnc mill but its $$ and slow unless you have many mills.. or you can forge them with a open die but then have to have the different dies made for each step for each blade pattern.. you have alot of time grinding and finishing the open die forging and its hard to get a finish compareable to the originals wihtout special grinding wheels you need to make your self... the handles have many specific parts , each aspect has a special function, you would need good moulds of the originals and then need to hand carve many features into the metal fittings... all this can be done but it must be done by a company with these skills - a factory for example.. . or a simple sabre ends up costing more than a medieval sword and is much eaiser to get wrong.. good military type sabres for a lone knife maker are just very hard ot reproduce. . just as not many attempt good roman swords (which are simplier).. there is many aspects especially in the metal decoraiton that in a peice by peice production would take a great deal of time to make. there is some good makers of accurate sharp military reproduction swords.. but in the anglosphere they are unknown. im sure if they were sold at a fair price people would buy them. but as there is so much junk swords in thsi catagory on the market and good offerings are not available to most consumers.. (north america is after all the lead market) then the sellers are happy to sell an indian made swords for a keen profit.. even if it only looks a little like the original at close inspection. I have often thought that an accurate reproduction that is true to all the original specs and created with the same durability of the originals would go for over a grand. I dont see them at Albion prices but maybe more than an 'in decent condition' original
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 23, 2021 7:47:50 GMT
2 years ago I bought a Windlass 1906 saber for 200 € sharpened. That's really cheap for a relative good repro. A realistic distal taper, good fullers, perhaps with a little bit more refinement of fullers and foible a very realistic handling repro. Ad the brass hilt from one of the orher models and this would be a cav. saber repro to dream of. I would pay 400 € for it. I understand that for 200 bucks you can't expect more and sometimes get less.
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Post by MichaelRS on Sept 23, 2021 19:19:56 GMT
2 years ago I bought a Windlass 1906 saber for 200 € sharpened. That's really cheap for a relative good repro. A realistic distal taper, good fullers, perhaps with a little bit more refinement of fullers and foible a very realistic handling repro. Ad the brass hilt from one of the orher models and this would be a cav. saber repro to dream of. I would pay 400 € for it. I understand that for 200 bucks you can't expect more and sometimes get less. Thank you for your evaluation. Yeah, the Windless is what I'm probably going to end up going with for the 1860. It's not like I'm going to be counting on it to save my life...unless the pool noodles, water bottles and odd selections of fruit I've been cutting with my katanas suddenly become more aggressive.
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 23, 2021 19:25:23 GMT
Why not save your money and buy an antique original? Here is an original Mansfield & Lamb M1860 without a scabbard, clearly issued based on nicks and the turned down guard... bid to $307 so far. Certainly not collectable with the blade nicks and no scabbard.. sharpen it and use it. www.ebay.com/itm/165078172552?hash=item266f6d0388:g:D4kAAOSwAg1hRQ15
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Post by MichaelRS on Sept 27, 2021 4:39:10 GMT
Why not save your money and buy an antique original? Here is an original Mansfield & Lamb M1860 without a scabbard, clearly issued based on nicks and the turned down guard... bid to $307 so far. Certainly not collectable with the blade nicks and no scabbard.. sharpen it and use it. www.ebay.com/itm/165078172552?hash=item266f6d0388:g:D4kAAOSwAg1hRQ15Mostly because I'm not THAT into it that I want to spend that much money.
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Post by armond on Oct 1, 2021 4:37:15 GMT
Why not save your money and buy an antique original? Here is an original Mansfield & Lamb M1860 without a scabbard, clearly issued based on nicks and the turned down guard... bid to $307 so far. Certainly not collectable with the blade nicks and no scabbard.. sharpen it and use it. www.ebay.com/itm/165078172552?hash=item266f6d0388:g:D4kAAOSwAg1hRQ15Mostly because I'm not THAT into it that I want to spend that much money. Yep...used to have that same opinion.
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Post by curiomansion on Oct 6, 2021 23:53:42 GMT
One option to consider is finding a cheap saber that's well put together (eg Cold Steel 1796) and regrinding the edge yourself. You can practice on your pick of $70 sabers if you wish. A good friend of mind reground a CS 1796 and it feels very close to an original and cuts like a monster. Machines needed to do the grinding can be had for under $100. If you're willing to commit to a new time consuming hobby, you can add $100s of value to cheap swords by learning to regrind. It'll probably take a year or so of practice though. My buddy's work is outstanding at this point.
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