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Post by twoseven on Aug 4, 2021 11:48:03 GMT
Greetings! I’m new here but I’m about to commission a custom type XXa cut-and-thrust bastard sword. I was hoping you knowledgeable folk here at SBG might give me some advice on what the best steel for the sword would be.
The sword would be designed to be a powerful cutter and capable thruster, with a 35” blade, 2.1” wide at the base and a hexagonal or lenticular cross section (which is better vs hard targets?)
My ideal sword material is CPM3V, however I understand it is difficult to machine or get in lengths greater than 36”. Any tips on how to make this steel work in a large blade?
That leaves me with either A2 or S7. I’m leaning towards S7 but I hear it has poor wear resistance and can’t harden to 60 hrc effectively. What are the strengths and weaknesses of these steels, and which would be best for a battlefield weapon designed for frequent use against hard, armored targets? Which steel would look the best if the sword was dug up in 100 years? I am inexperienced at maintaining a sword, so a steel that requires as little maintenance as possible is preferred.
Any other steel that might be better for my swords intended purpose? How could I make CPM3V work in a blade of this length?
Thanks!
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Post by soulfromheart on Aug 4, 2021 12:33:07 GMT
Just by curiosity, who will you commission for your blade ? Depending on the maker, they may not have access or even know how to work the kind of Steel you desire. Some have their preferences too. (And it's traditional in SBG to answer all Steel questions by something akin to : "Heat treating is way more important than Steel type anyway" which, while true, wouldn't actually be answering your question ). To try to stay on topic, I heard that A2 was somewhat prone to rusting or offering little corrosion resistance so it may be higher maintenance than you would like (but then, so are all carbon steels). Is there a particular reason you wouldn't choose a more traditional and tested steel ?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 4, 2021 12:59:08 GMT
Blablabla heat treatment!!! For me 5160 or just 1060 is cool! Afaik the most cpm3v swords experienced forum member is Lancelot Chan I summon you!
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Post by twoseven on Aug 4, 2021 15:15:10 GMT
Just by curiosity, who will you commission for your blade ? Depending on the maker, they may not have access or even know how to work the kind of Steel you desire. Some have their preferences too. (And it's traditional in SBG to answer all Steel questions by something akin to : "Heat treating is way more important than Steel type anyway" which, while true, wouldn't actually be answering your question ). To try to stay on topic, I heard that A2 was somewhat prone to rusting or offering little corrosion resistance so it may be higher maintenance than you would like (but then, so are all carbon steels). Is there a particular reason you wouldn't choose a more traditional and tested steel ? Thanks for the reply! I have been discussing the project with the masterful Ernie at Yeshuas sword. Nothing set in stone, but A2 or S7 are some options I have been given. I am looking into these steels because I am truly trying to commission the best sword I possibly can, I am a min/maxer at heart so I figure I should take advantage of the fact that we have easy access to some of the best and most diverse steel options in human history. I really just want the best steel I can get I liked CPM3V due to its high wear resistance, ability to effectively harden to 61hrc, great toughness, etc. I don’t know much about A2 or S7, I like the look of S7 but the fact that it can’t really reach the magic 60 hrc bothers me a bit.
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Post by RickDastardly on Aug 4, 2021 15:29:28 GMT
CPM3V is a fine steel, but be aware it can pit quickly if a bit of corrosion sets in. You need someone very familiar with it and with the proper equipment to do a heat treatment that will make it worthwhile. Eric Fehrman was a master with it but I don't think he makes any more and didn't make swords, just big knives.
A2 and S7 Are both good steels too. If you're beating against 'hard' targets I would rather have something that will deform rather than chip an edge. S7 might not hold an edge as well as the others, but a blunt blade can be sharpened more easily than a chipped one. A2 isn't bad for corrosion, nothing like as bad as the O1 or 1095, but it can still rust. A light coat of oil is all it takes though. A2 is a fine knife steel and with a springier heat treat would, I think, make a good sword.
I guess your budget is quite generous since a blade in CPM3V won't be cheap. The ultimate steel for a sword might be Infi, but good luck getting Jerry Busse to sell you a bar! Besides, the magic is in the heat treat and there's no way he'll part with those secrets. Maybe commission Jerry's custom shop to make the sword? Got a spare $10,000 or so? If I ever win the lottery, that will be one of my first orders!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Aug 4, 2021 16:04:52 GMT
Blablabla heat treatment!!! For me 5160 or just 1060 is cool! P-) Afaik the most cpm3v swords experienced forum member is Lancelot Chan I summon you! Hhahah I'm here now. In my opinion, you are correct. I've used 3V swords and despite being at 61 HRC and with so many attributes to it, from my usage they damaged at the same conditions as my longship 5160H at 58 to 59 HRC did, to the same degree also. They bumped in the edge, or microchip the same. Now if you are talking about other 5160H heat treat, like from Gus Trim at 52 HRC or some other lower hardness, they definitely will be a lot more different from 3V at 61 HRC. The 3V is significantly more difficult to grind / sharpen due to higher wear resistance and higher hardness. But for sword cuts, that "wear resistance" is less useful than for knife cuts. They do, however, being a lot more tough than 1095 at 62 HRC. So in my eyes they act like a supercharged 5160H that can reach 61HRC without being very brittle. The additional sharpness can contribute to a sharper apex than 5160H swords at slightly lower hardness. However, that apex would not hold if you cut hard targets like living bones. So if your aim is an edge as sharp as possible that can still survive cutting hard targets, that bit of extra hardness is meaningless to you. But if your aim is just to cut the fabric, than that bit of extra hardness is meaningful since they can allow a finer apex. Hope I made this easy enough to understand.
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Post by twoseven on Aug 4, 2021 16:58:24 GMT
Thanks for all your excellent replies! I’m leaning heavily toward S7, but just wondering is it at all possible/feasible to reach HRC 60 with S7 without compromising the sword? S7 seems ALMOST perfect but it seems a bit soft compared to other options like 3V, L-6, T-10, etc. I don’t even know what the “sweet spot” for A2 hrc is.
I’m just looking for a sword that can take some punishment and neglect, as I expect this blade to stay in my family for a very long time. As a perfectionist I often get paranoid about my swords not being perfectly “true” after hard use, even slight bends would drive me mad, if I ever had to bend this expensive sword back into shape it would truly haunt me...
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