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Post by aldarith on Jun 12, 2021 4:06:59 GMT
That sounds really odd to me. Could you start a new thread in the sword repair forum and post a picture?
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Jun 13, 2021 16:24:17 GMT
WOW. I'll keep it short, I bought a blade from them once, never again.
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admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,114
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Post by admin on Jun 14, 2021 2:04:49 GMT
WOW. I'll keep it short, I bought a blade from them once, never again. Sorry Gunnar, but in this thread that has caused so much grief this is exactly the kind of post that encourages more of the issues I have been fighting in this thread and conflicts with a couple of the forum rules and guidelines.
5. Keep other Members’ threads on topic by not derailing or otherwise hijacking the topic of a thread. If the OP (original poster) asks about a specific product or question, do not answer ‘get a [insert alternative product here] instead’ unless the OP has specifically requested alternative options. If you do not like a particular product, you must address it in a ‘pros and cons’ format. In other words, find a few good things to say about it – not just dismiss it out of hand because it is not to your personal tastes;
Additionally, from the rules page..
Interactions with Sword Makers and Vendors
One of our primary goals at the SBG forums is to encourage healthy and meaningful discourse between sword makers and members of the sword buying community. If well managed, such interactions can and have historically resulted in design improvements and refinements of the swords available on the market, servicing sub niches within the sword collecting spectrum, and generally improving both the affordability and quality of swords.
If this feedback loop operates at its full potential, it will be mutually beneficial to sword makers AND the people who buy swords. However in the past, unregulated interactions would often eventually deteriorate to the point where a few members with an agenda, open or hidden, would drive them away from wishing to interact with the community - resulting in a net loss for community as a whole.
The whole, one rotten apple spoils the barrel problem - so to combat this problem, ALL interactions with forum members that are recognized as Manufacturer and Vendors are governed by the following special additional rules.
a) Engagements with M&V will be mutually civil and respectful. This includes criticisms and complaints, both of which can be presented and discussed with civility.
b) Criticisms and complaints should be presented with some level of evidence, not third hand "I know a guy who said..." It is not up to the accused to provide evidence but visa versa - unprovable statements or speculation is NOT permitted when interacting with or discussing Manufacture and Vendors recognized on this forum.
c) Instigation of witch hunts, flame wars, baseless/unfounded allegations, personal attacks and/or insults will not be tolerated.
d) Inquiries, criticisms and comments should be relevant to the specific M&V and the product that they are discussing unless alternate topics are invited by the M&V.
e) Personal issues with M&V should remain personal and conducted via the PM function.
f) M&V should be given opportunity to rectify a situation before they are crucified for it.
Comments, critiques and founded complaints are welcome. Blatant disregard of these rules by ANY party can be met with a ban without warning.
Minor infractions, and infractions deemed to be unintentional are at the moderators discretion to warn them or ban them outright. In short, there is ZERO tolerance for disrespectful or uncivil behavior and this is NOT the place to air your dirty laundry or try to put a company you have some kind of issue with out of business, and we simply refuse to be a platform for such behavior.
This forum is not one person, it is the sum of all its members, and it's the members who set the tone. If we wish this to be a friendly forum with healthy discourse with the very people who create, produce and make available the items that we all love and desire then we must make it a place where they can come and feel welcome and interact without constantly putting out fires and getting shot at.
In short, if you have some kind of hidden agenda or if you cannot be civil - you are not welcome on these forums, period. If you can be respectful and civil, and abide by the commonsense rules above - Welcome to the SBG Sword Forum.
Let's keep this thread within the rules please folks - you cannot 'keep it short' if what you have you have to say is dismissive - this comment needs further evidence and specifics to conform with the rules. Just as long as it is civil you can say anything because civil discourse leads to good results, and dismissive comments only pour fuel on the fire..
Thanks, - Admin
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Post by Lord Newport on Jun 14, 2021 15:41:23 GMT
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Post by Dandelion on Jun 14, 2021 16:15:33 GMT
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 15, 2021 2:51:43 GMT
That sounds really odd to me. Could you start a new thread in the sword repair forum and post a picture? I can actually,, I will have to get that one ready by taking some pictures,, maybe over dinner today. Also, I will need to introduce it properly,, I will state that it was recommended in another thread that I start a thread in sword repair and I will probably paste my paragraphs as well. I don't know how I will go about the discussion, because I don't imagine a "repair" that could be done,, so I will probably paste your comment without your name,, and then say I wasn't searching for a repair but instead am interested in learning about proper construction and how to understand the quality of construction in the swords I've experienced. |
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jun 15, 2021 11:53:48 GMT
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Post by aldarith on Jun 15, 2021 14:18:16 GMT
Thanks to both of you, I'll head over for a read. |
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ghost
Member
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Post by ghost on Jun 16, 2021 2:45:56 GMT
the op's video is pretty self explanatory and can be very detrimental to scorpion swords sales. i personally youtube multiple videos nearly every purchase especially looking for reviews and suspect othrrs do the same.
i guess i will go file test to check, but my black asp seems like a good HT( but this was bought over a decade ago). did fine cutting a few water bottles. from my recollection owner is quite good with responding to email and acquiested to my request to leave off his makers mark
agreed that he hasnt made much progress towards distal taper and functionality, but he still definitely fills a niche in the fantasy/movie swords.
kinda disappointed in the maker and unfortunately he will have to own up to this.
hopefully this gets cleared up soon
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 17, 2021 0:43:54 GMT
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Post by tsmspace on Jul 19, 2021 23:02:26 GMT
THey did offer to replace it,, and after I asked to keep the old one, they agreed to also allow me to keep the old one. I wanted to keep the old one so I can show and tell the contrast in heat treat,,, I offered that I would send it back but it would be super sweet to have both,, they agreed. It's true, they should have the opportunity to experience the condition of it, so they can see firsthand, but I think they should be able to see the video pretty well,, so really by now they should know what they are looking at,,, meanwhile I will have many opportunities while sharing my swords to show people how one can be so easily bent, while the other is sharper, stays firm, etc. it might be a rare opportunity. I'm hopeful! Did they offer you any explanation as to how it could have happened? no. I have my own thoughts. I'm still waiting on the replacement, anyway, but here's what I suspect. First, they quenched with water. Everything they did was around water quenching. Then, because of one reason or another, probably the popularity of oil quenching on tv, they switched to oil quenching,,, and honestly just never got it quite right. Their blades are ENORMOUS. Well, you might say, 3/8" isn't that thick, but the difference between quenching a 1/8" thick inch wide bar, and a 3/8" thick 3 inch wide bar is simply enormouse. I imagine that you just can't use the same method. The 3/8" thick bar will need a much colder quenching medium to actually cool. All of the hardening wisdom is around thinner materials, since the absolute beefiness of scorpion swords is not really commonly produced in your average sword corner. SO I think they were doing water, then they switched to some narrow oil can, and even preheated it. (just like on tv). This was, I am suggesting, wrong. Instead, for the specifically non-elegant blade they are producing, they should just use water. They should fill a big huge can like they cut up with water, and just temper right in there. When the blades warp a little bit, they should say,, "our blades are enormous. In order to get hair-raising toughness and blade quality, we need to use a stressful quencing process,, and our blades are likely to take a tiny bit of warping. If you can find a blade maker that can make what we make without a tiny bit of warping, we'll beat their price, but they need to pass our rigorous toughness testing". a sword like that is inherently munitions grade, just sayin. anyway, I don't think they are settled down over the whole thing, and I don't think they've solved all of their problems, because they said they were going to rush one out and I never got one,,, so the only thing I can imagine is they don't want to send me another one that's the same. I can agree,, I think that if they think it's just going to be the same, they should wait and send me one that's the one they want to send out. I think the solution is water. Here's this facebook link. knifesteelnerds.com/2021/07/19/which-quenching-oil-is-best-for-knives/?fbclid=IwAR266x7RhNd0xA-UBu6UEwNH9PdF3IZRrzMvyrp9daXa5tI3zzsEYRHYLAk |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 20, 2021 0:17:51 GMT
Did they offer you any explanation as to how it could have happened? no. I have my own thoughts. I'm still waiting on the replacement, anyway, but here's what I suspect. First, they quenched with water. Everything they did was around water quenching. Then, because of one reason or another, probably the popularity of oil quenching on tv, they switched to oil quenching,,, and honestly just never got it quite right. Their blades are ENORMOUS. Well, you might say, 3/8" isn't that thick, but the difference between quenching a 1/8" thick inch wide bar, and a 3/8" thick 3 inch wide bar is simply enormouse. I imagine that you just can't use the same method. The 3/8" thick bar will need a much colder quenching medium to actually cool. All of the hardening wisdom is around thinner materials, since the absolute beefiness of scorpion swords is not really commonly produced in your average sword corner. SO I think they were doing water, then they switched to some narrow oil can, and even preheated it. (just like on tv). This was, I am suggesting, wrong. Instead, for the specifically non-elegant blade they are producing, they should just use water. They should fill a big huge can like they cut up with water, and just temper right in there. When the blades warp a little bit, they should say,, "our blades are enormous. In order to get hair-raising toughness and blade quality, we need to use a stressful quencing process,, and our blades are likely to take a tiny bit of warping. If you can find a blade maker that can make what we make without a tiny bit of warping, we'll beat their price, but they need to pass our rigorous toughness testing". a sword like that is inherently munitions grade, just sayin. anyway, I don't think they are settled down over the whole thing, and I don't think they've solved all of their problems, because they said they were going to rush one out and I never got one,,, so the only thing I can imagine is they don't want to send me another one that's the same. I can agree,, I think that if they think it's just going to be the same, they should wait and send me one that's the one they want to send out. I think the solution is water. Here's this facebook link. knifesteelnerds.com/2021/07/19/which-quenching-oil-is-best-for-knives/?fbclid=IwAR266x7RhNd0xA-UBu6UEwNH9PdF3IZRrzMvyrp9daXa5tI3zzsEYRHYLAk
actually the process is identical, and if they were using water theyed be exploding those 1095 blades left and right, these examples are simply not heat treated at all. Even a piss poor quench would harden the blade more than these.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 20, 2021 0:36:55 GMT
no. I have my own thoughts. I'm still waiting on the replacement, anyway, but here's what I suspect. First, they quenched with water. Everything they did was around water quenching. Then, because of one reason or another, probably the popularity of oil quenching on tv, they switched to oil quenching,,, and honestly just never got it quite right. Their blades are ENORMOUS. Well, you might say, 3/8" isn't that thick, but the difference between quenching a 1/8" thick inch wide bar, and a 3/8" thick 3 inch wide bar is simply enormouse. I imagine that you just can't use the same method. The 3/8" thick bar will need a much colder quenching medium to actually cool. All of the hardening wisdom is around thinner materials, since the absolute beefiness of scorpion swords is not really commonly produced in your average sword corner. SO I think they were doing water, then they switched to some narrow oil can, and even preheated it. (just like on tv). This was, I am suggesting, wrong. Instead, for the specifically non-elegant blade they are producing, they should just use water. They should fill a big huge can like they cut up with water, and just temper right in there. When the blades warp a little bit, they should say,, "our blades are enormous. In order to get hair-raising toughness and blade quality, we need to use a stressful quencing process,, and our blades are likely to take a tiny bit of warping. If you can find a blade maker that can make what we make without a tiny bit of warping, we'll beat their price, but they need to pass our rigorous toughness testing". a sword like that is inherently munitions grade, just sayin. anyway, I don't think they are settled down over the whole thing, and I don't think they've solved all of their problems, because they said they were going to rush one out and I never got one,,, so the only thing I can imagine is they don't want to send me another one that's the same. I can agree,, I think that if they think it's just going to be the same, they should wait and send me one that's the one they want to send out. I think the solution is water. Here's this facebook link. knifesteelnerds.com/2021/07/19/which-quenching-oil-is-best-for-knives/?fbclid=IwAR266x7RhNd0xA-UBu6UEwNH9PdF3IZRrzMvyrp9daXa5tI3zzsEYRHYLAk
actually the process is identical, and if they were using water theyed be exploding those 1095 blades left and right, these examples are simply not heat treated at all. Even a piss poor quench would harden the blade more than these.
Which makes me think one possible explanation is that demand exceeded Scorpions production capabilities and they went outside to source blanks made by someone else who sold them to Scorpion as heat treated when they were not. I wouldn't be surprised if this is good old lowest bidder communist Chinese workmanship. |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 20, 2021 11:48:49 GMT
My theory is they decided "noone actually uses these anyway so fuk it" and then got caught with their pants down....
They already cut corners by grinding extremely short shallow "bevels" which are little more than sharpening the waterjetted bar of steel, by skipping heat treat and just throwing grips on the jetted blanks they save hours of time and labor on every single piece, You can grip a full tang panel construction blade in about 20 minutes not counting the time it takes epoxy to dry, and those shallow bevels can be done in about 5 minutes with an angle grinder. Being that I also work with waterjetted blanks I know what these weapons cost to make, and Scorpions profit margins have to be very tiny at the current prices they charge, which means they have to make cuts in work and labor to spam as many as possible to make any money under that model. You can spend a couple days making a really nice piece or slap together BS in 45 minutes... They have been making blades twice as long as me, countless hours of practice to learn and improve, there is no reason they shouldn't be offering a much better product except that they don't want to.
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Post by shepherd214 on Jul 21, 2021 3:43:51 GMT
My theory is they decided "noone actually uses these anyway so fuk it" and then got caught with their pants down.... They already cut corners by grinding extremely short shallow "bevels" which are little more than sharpening the waterjetted bar of steel, by skipping heat treat and just throwing grips on the jetted blanks they save hours of time and labor on every single piece, You can grip a full tang panel construction blade in about 20 minutes not counting the time it takes epoxy to dry, and those shallow bevels can be done in about 5 minutes with an angle grinder. Being that I also work with waterjetted blanks I know what these weapons cost to make, and Scorpions profit margins have to be very tiny at the current prices they charge, which means they have to make cuts in work and labor to spam as many as possible to make any money under that model. You can spend a couple days making a really nice piece or slap together BS in 45 minutes... They have been making blades twice as long as me, countless hours of practice to learn and improve, there is no reason they shouldn't be offering a much better product except that they don't want to. To make matters worse, they asked OP to take down his bad review on Facebook, asked me to take down my bad review on Facebook (where they have no control in other groups) and the other thread going on called Temper Issues, he claims they won't even allow him post his bad reviews. Lol what good is a review system when you only let the good reviews be posted? You're not getting any clarity at all, it's all for show and fluff and not letting the customer get a more broad perspective. |
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admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,114
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Post by admin on Jul 22, 2021 5:46:13 GMT
Just wild speculation now - offensive language, and some really questionable stuff going on with this..
Guessing about whether they use oil or water for the quench, wild speculation that they get blade blanks from 'Communist China', claiming they have no pride in what they do and don't even temper their swords at all?
If some people knew about basic courtesy and manners, it might have been possible to actually ask Scorpion Swords directly instead of posting literal conspiracy theories! Guess that won't happen now, I honestly don't even like visiting the forum much myself these days thanks to the Jackals and I have lost a LOT of respect for some of you who I once actually even admired..
Honestly, this is getting beyond a joke now - whatever problem Scorpion might have had (and it was admitted that there WERE problems and many steps have been taken to address it) is now so mixed up in troll- bait that any 'broad perspective' is lost. It's just bashing, it's spreading and honestly, I am sickened by it all.. Enough is enough, this thread is now locked and steps will be taken to clean up the forum from people who delight in chaos, trouble and character assassination. If you actually value your interactions on this forum, plug your manners in!
At the end of the day, if there is legal trouble because of what some of you say, I sure as heck won't defend you. Stop risking the existence of the forum and go play your stupid games on Facebook.
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