|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Jun 1, 2021 3:30:26 GMT
Its clear that the original explanation used the wrong terminology - and this thread has helped to uncover this. 'Case hardening' is not the correct term, and I say it is all semantics because the video shows the swords CAN flex appropriately when well heat treated, and that the OP's sword was clearly defective. Where it started to dip into weirdness was I think because they were worried that the sword would be flexed abusively beyond what it was designed to do. With regards to quality dropping recently, that's not impossible. For a while there, Scorpion was sent more orders than they could handle and so the chances of less than stellar examples going out will also increase with the general increase in volume, however Scorpion always go the extra mile for their customers - even this is an example as they are making a new sword and not asking for the return of the defective one. If we ignore the semantic error about case hardening, and they admit that this is the wrong term in hindsight, what we have is a description of how they make their swords and a video showing that they flex appropriately. But if you want to try and give it a permanent set, you will succeed as the swords will always tend to deform if deliberately flexed beyond their limitations rather than snap - and this property was incorrectly described as 'case hardening'. The OPs sword was badly tempered by comparison and will be fixed. Still curious as to what step was missed or how the original sword came out though. So in short, it seems case hardening was the wrong description - they are spring tempered, but not designed to be flexed excessively (no sword is)... I think that is why things have gone South. Wondering why a guy making swords commercially would get his terminology on the all important heat treat process he uses WRONG?  |
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904 
|
Post by Mikeeman on Jun 1, 2021 3:31:15 GMT
Someone who makes and sells blades knows better than to say blades are case hardened and not spring tempered when they are. Basically what it boils down to is either you're lying, or he's lying about the HT. If he's lying, then you're supporting a liar and shady dealer in your shop. If you're lying, then you know for a fact that you're selling a bad product in your shop. Either way, not a good look, my man.
This right here is exactly what you created this site and forum all these years ago, was it not? To get people a good product? To call out the shady ones? To inform people of who was or wasn't a good business? This is shady, and lies were told by someone. And that's the bottom line.
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Jun 1, 2021 3:37:40 GMT
1. I'm running out of popcorn
2. There is zero reason why Paul should be doing the interpretation/talking for Scorpion swords.
3. There is no point #3
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Jun 1, 2021 3:59:51 GMT
Seriously- why is Scorpion Swords not just speaking for themselves? What's with this "I'll go check and come back with an answer" business? It makes no sense. Chris has been a member here since forever and he's already posted here.
Paul- this sort of action from you is just the kind of thing that feeds into all the difficulties you've always been frustrated with regarding having to explain/defend/justify your business relationships and the free discussion of the forum. Really- you must know that for you to repeatedly speak for Chris is going to look improper.
|
|
|
|
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jun 1, 2021 4:08:04 GMT
Chrisperoni let see you try to bend the one in you avart. Better not you will cut your leg off.
|
|
|
|
Post by rannh1 on Jun 1, 2021 4:09:33 GMT
I'd like to see Scorpion Swords address these issues personally too, so as to avoid any confusions or possible accusations of bias Paul. Especially when there seems to be a miscommunication issue between two obviously different processes. I know it might feel like some people are pursuing something with the idea of a witchhunt, but I am sure that is not the case. AT this point, the mood definitely seems to be curiosity riddled with incredulity on the part of some. I for one, definitely do want a clarification from the company itself. |
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 1, 2021 4:27:27 GMT
One thing I do agree with Chris on so far is that you shouldn't bend swords over your knee, it's just dangerous and unscientific. Press tip into a block or secure tip in a vise/stump and bend from the hilt.
Although what Troy did was basically the equivalent of bending a thin annealed bar, so probably not that dangerous. And he knew it was that soft because it bent on a bottle first.
|
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jun 1, 2021 5:00:07 GMT
----- i guess "to all". I won't be "flex testing" the blade,,, I know what flex testing is when people show it,,, like proof testing. I just mean I will try to repeat the bend test I performed in my video,, where I bend it over my leg. I won't use all of my mite to bend it until it bends, I will push on it and see if it feels durable enough to hit something with it. It's very thick, I think, as a newbie,, and I think that cooling that much steel is not easy. Actually, tons of people are quenching on youtube in a container only marginally larger than the blade itself. They are apparently oil quenching in oil that is already heated, to manage the quench and for some steels to result in a better hardness. which steel gets harder from which quench is a question, but I do know that if you dunk it in a huge pool of air-temperature water, it's going to cool a lot more suddenly than if you use some tiny reservoir of oil. Perhaps they are just sticking every blade into a tiny little tube of oil that just keeps getting hotter and hotter, so that it doesn't even quench?  ? I wonder if such a THICK BEAST of a blade should just be quenched in a tub of water that is really quite big. There's plenty of steel there, so it's no problem the corrosion, and if you don't have a cool enough quench tank,, you won't even quench. My mental image is of someone with one little tube of oil just like forged in fire,,, and like, 20 or so blades that are heating all at once in an oven,, and then they take them out and shove one after the other into the same tube of oil, that after the FIRST one is already too warm,, and by the 5th or 6th one it's so hot you could hard boil eggs in it. |
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on Jun 1, 2021 5:10:40 GMT
----- i guess "to all". I won't be "flex testing" the blade,,, I know what flex testing is when people show it,,, like proof testing. I just mean I will try to repeat the bend test I performed in my video,, where I bend it over my leg. I won't use all of my mite to bend it until it bends, I will push on it and see if it feels durable enough to hit something with it. It's very thick, I think, as a newbie,, and I think that cooling that much steel is not easy. Actually, tons of people are quenching on youtube in a container only marginally larger than the blade itself. They are apparently oil quenching in oil that is already heated, to manage the quench and for some steels to result in a better hardness. which steel gets harder from which quench is a question, but I do know that if you dunk it in a huge pool of air-temperature water, it's going to cool a lot more suddenly than if you use some tiny reservoir of oil. Perhaps they are just sticking every blade into a tiny little tube of oil that just keeps getting hotter and hotter, so that it doesn't even quench? ? I wonder if such a THICK BEAST of a blade should just be quenched in a tub of water that is really quite big. There's plenty of steel there, so it's no problem the corrosion, and if you don't have a cool enough quench tank,, you won't even quench. My mental image is of someone with one little tube of oil just like forged in fire,,, and like, 20 or so blades that are heating all at once in an oven,, and then they take them out and shove one after the other into the same tube of oil, that after the FIRST one is already too warm,, and by the 5th or 6th one it's so hot you could hard boil eggs in it. Technically speaking, a quench oil gets more viscous as it heats up. The more viscous it is, the faster it pulls the heat out of a blade. 1095 has a pearlite nose of 0.9 seconds, so if the first quench is fast enough to properly harden a steel, all blades quenched after that should be fine even if the oil is hotter. |
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jun 1, 2021 5:11:41 GMT
I have no idea where they get their steel from, could have been a mix up in the steel and they didn't get 1095. They should test every blade to see if it will bend this easy before they ship it out. I am in touch with them about this and think that double checking each sword from now on is a great recommendation.
Just to clarify something - they admit that the sword in question had something go wrong and is not representative. Where things seem to have been misconstrued is that this was okay, they were saying that if the replacement is aggressively flex tested it will be much better than the problematic sword, but it will eventually destroy it and is not a good idea..
From what they wrote, they want to video their own tests before they send it and do not recommend that the OP goes out of their way to flex it excessively. Any sword will be ruined if you keep flexing it. I don't plan to "aggressively flex test" , I've seen plenty of that. I am just going to repeat the same little test that bent the other one and show that the one is much softer. Then, I'm going to use it on a gatorade bottle. If it bends on the gatorade bottle, all is not lost, it will just depend on the kind of bend it takes, and what it feels like to try to bend it back. ,,,, My plan is in NO WAY destructive testing. I have NO INTENTION of destructive testing any of my swords. That bend test I did was just a demonstration that it was super easy to bend because of a converstation I had elsewhere. As for how it happened,, I posted already, but I said that I thought perhaps the quench medium was oil, and perhaps it was getting pretty hot by then. I wonder if such a super thick bar as this is better quenched in air-temperature water, and a big drum of water at that. I wonder if they were using some little tube of preheated oil,, that bar is so much thicker that the swords that get a nice quench from preheated oil. I even have this picture in my mind of them making years worth of swords in a huge tub of water, then switching to oil and now a bunch of people are like,,, what the heck. |
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jun 1, 2021 5:15:00 GMT
----- i guess "to all". I won't be "flex testing" the blade,,, I know what flex testing is when people show it,,, like proof testing. I just mean I will try to repeat the bend test I performed in my video,, where I bend it over my leg. I won't use all of my mite to bend it until it bends, I will push on it and see if it feels durable enough to hit something with it. It's very thick, I think, as a newbie,, and I think that cooling that much steel is not easy. Actually, tons of people are quenching on youtube in a container only marginally larger than the blade itself. They are apparently oil quenching in oil that is already heated, to manage the quench and for some steels to result in a better hardness. which steel gets harder from which quench is a question, but I do know that if you dunk it in a huge pool of air-temperature water, it's going to cool a lot more suddenly than if you use some tiny reservoir of oil. Perhaps they are just sticking every blade into a tiny little tube of oil that just keeps getting hotter and hotter, so that it doesn't even quench? ? I wonder if such a THICK BEAST of a blade should just be quenched in a tub of water that is really quite big. There's plenty of steel there, so it's no problem the corrosion, and if you don't have a cool enough quench tank,, you won't even quench. My mental image is of someone with one little tube of oil just like forged in fire,,, and like, 20 or so blades that are heating all at once in an oven,, and then they take them out and shove one after the other into the same tube of oil, that after the FIRST one is already too warm,, and by the 5th or 6th one it's so hot you could hard boil eggs in it. Technically speaking, a quench oil gets more viscous as it heats up. The more viscous it is, the faster it pulls the heat out of a blade. 1095 has a pearlite nose of 0.9 seconds, so if the first quench is fast enough to properly harden a steel, all blades quenched after that should be fine even if the oil is hotter. that's a really thick bar, though,, it might be like,,, really heating up the medium. I mean I don't know anything about it,,, it's just what I picture as a cause. I am basically casually sharing the whatever thought comes to mind. did you notice that if you put a bunch of question marks in a row,,, it makes emojis out of them? lets try exclamations !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 1, 2021 5:44:44 GMT
No, tm, I know it's counterintuitive but hot oil cools red hot steel faster than room temperature or cold oil.
But a guy who has been selling tons of swords for over a decade probably got all that figured out AGES ago, you would think.
But that's totally aside from saying your blades ae case hardened instead of spring tempered and are meant to bend instead of flex.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 1, 2021 5:53:34 GMT
ok I think there is a lot of misunderstandings going on here. I will endeavor to assist and I will make some guesses and suggestion and if they work for scorpion and they can improve good for them.
First of all many people misunderstand what case hardening means. often we hear people with a little knowledge but not quite enough misuse the term in relation to 1095. 1095 is a shallow hardening steel and you do not case harden it by the strict modern definition because it doesn't work that way. So let us all understand that when they say case hardened they mean it is not hard all the way through because 1095 is shallow hardening and either by design or by unintended limitation the steel does not harden all the way through. I have trouble with this as a reasonable explanation for the OP's video. watching the video the steel flexes and returns to true near the tip and in the forward section of the blade. this indicates that in that area the blade is hardened all the way through. if it had a soft core it would stay bent just like a DH katana or the section hilt-ward of middle where it did take a set. The spot in which it is soft we cannot know if it is soft all the way through or if it is partially hard with a soft core, but we can make a reasonable guess. The OP said it was very easy to bend and he felt little resistance to his force. This is because he very quickly reached the tensile yield point. up until the yield point all steel of the same shape, size and thickness, will give the same amount of resistance regardless of whether it is hardened or not hardened. the more you deflect the steel the harder it pushes back until it yields, or you do. His description of how easy it was to bend the rear section suggests that the blade was very soft and the yield point was reached quickly. After the yield point is reached the steel does not resist bending nearly as much and any deflection will result is some amount of retained deflection. A warp or a set forms. It is at the yield point and beyond that the grain of the steel can be shifted and steel fatigue may set in. if the yield point is never exceeded very little fatigue will be imparted to the steel and it will take a great many more repetitions of flexing and stressing to damage the steel. SO, if you have a blade that is through hardened and you flex it to a point where the steel does not yield you may be confident that you have had very little impact on the integrity of the blade. A flex test can be a valuable tool if used with knowledge. Used to be that SBG was all about teaching the knowledge. All I see lately is rules: don't do this, don't do that, this is wrong this is right, but never any explanation as to why, never any knowledge being passed along. I learned a great deal when I first joined this forum a long time ago.
as to the people saying one guy can't make all these swords I would counter that yes, he just might be able to. It is obvious that his blanks are cut from a large sheet of steel almost certainly by some manner of CNC cutting machine. might be plasma, laser, water jet, I don't know but judging from the repeatability in the form of his blanks we can see in some of the batch pictures he posts it is computer run and those machines can crank out the cuts pretty darned fast, even the cheap ones. grind the edges smooth to clean up after the cutter, grind some bevels on, drill some holes for handle. it's a simple and fast process, if the guy works diligently at it he should absolutely be able to crank them out pretty fast. What you get from this process is going to be unattractive to many of us. Some will like them, some will be on a budget and be happy with them as the best they can get. there is a place for blades like this.
so what should we expect? Honesty for one. there's been some trouble here. some of it has come from the people writing the ads and posts and emails just not using the correct terms, probably out of innocent ignorance. Then there are Jason Woodard's videos. I'm going to draw the curtains of charity over this part of it because it can only get nasty and I really don't want to be there right now, but please understand, I have had issues with them. Serious issues. Rigorous attention to detail is needed when promoting a product to prevent inadvertent inaccuracies and untruths to come across. business people need to be careful here. please be more rigorous and less enthusiastic in promotions.
I have read that perhaps the oven used to heat treat is not long enough for long blades. that could result in the failure we see in the OP's blade. I suspect this to be the case considering the "they are made to do that" line taken in the email revealed to us.
as for the heat treatment process itself it could be much improved. 1500f is slightly hot for 1095. 1470-1480 would be much better. Honestly I suspect the maker doesn't know what temperature the steel is when quenched because they say:
"The blade is heated to approximately 1500 degrees, until it becomes non magnetic and then quenched in oil."
1095 becomes non-magnetic at about 1325 degrees F and that is very much too cool to be quenching. nothing is said of a soak time which is vital to 1095, nothing is said of normalization and thermo-cycling which some claim is unneeded for stock removal blades but I disagree as I have seen several cases of steel coming from the foundry with bad structure that needs fixing. normalize and cycle every time and many problems will never find you. on the other hand they may indeed be using a digitally controlled oven since Paul has testified to seeing the heat treat oven. in this case I highly recommend removing the "non-magnetic" portion of the heat treat description. It portrays a lack of knowledge that is at odds with the claim of "superior heat treatment process" as is the stated procedure of quenching at 1500 and doing so without a soak, and is further embarrassed by the tempering at 500deg f. 1095 should not be tempered anywhere in or near the 500 degree range. if 450 isn't soft enough then you need to refine your grain and or increase temper to 650. TME (Tempered Martensite Embrittlement) is a real thing and by tempering at 500f you are actively weakening your steel. your blades could be twice as durable or more at a thinner section, distal taper, and a harder temper. Micheal Allenson took a 1075 longsword made to historical specs under the instruction of Peter Johnsson through the knife or death season 1 course where he had to chop through terrible things like buckets of gravel, sheet metal, 300+ pound blocks of ice and also soft flesh like raw chicken and fish. the course destroyed lots of blades. his sword was longer, lighter, thinner, harder, and more flexible than all of the brands that claim ultra toughness. His sword went through four times on his way to becoming season 1 grand champion and that sword came away still sharp enough to cut paper and just barely scratched. I saw it first had after the course was run and before any restoration was done to it. So I say to you that there is more to being tough than being built like a brick.
more on their heat treat: they say they oil quench, what kind of oil? hot canola or similar is my guess. I see this all the time. the give away is the 1500f degree temp. 1500 is too hot. 1095 is very sensitive to grain growth and this will give you larger grain which is less durable. BUT larger grain hardens better, it is quite a common error to see people quenching 1095 too hot in order to get the hardness they want out of canola oil. Use Parks 50 at room temp and quench 20-30 degree cooler, it makes a difference.
but really, if you are going to crow about how superior your heat treat is then you should really study up a bit and learn. Scorpion has been making blades longer than I have but they have not shown any growth in their education. I have taken metallurgy classes, I have taken classes from world leaders in the industry, I have studied with the big boys but I don't strut around crowing about how wonderful I am. the Scorpion Swords website reads like a comic book. tone it down, pick up some learning to back up your claims and only make claims you understand. THIS RIGHT HERE is why so many people who know a thing or two or more are railing against the company. they are saying wrong things, spreading wrong information and strutting about it.
I spoke of honesty above and why people who know are calling this company out. that email claims the blade is made soft in the center (because this is our charitable interpretation of the incorrect term used) and meant to take a set instead of shatter on impact. yeah? ok then why is most of the blade springy and resistant to taking a set and only the section near the grip soft and bendy? see, when you claim a thing but then evidence shows another thing people start to think you've lied to them, and I think they are probably right. Also, trying to get the OP to take down his video, and especially as a first response is really low. This is the move of a person who wants to hide something. I have had one sword fail. I faced it head on talked about it publicly and was honest about what went wrong and how I fixed it and it did not hurt my reputation, in fact I think it may have increased it. it was hard to do but it was worth it. Jason Woodard was removed from several discussion groups that I help admin for telling obvious lies and being abusive to members in response to being called on the obvious lies. Jason is the public face of this company. This is not a good look. the blade community has a very large proportion of highly knowledgeable people, more so than most fandoms. the hype is never going to fly here. many of us know more about making blades than you do, even if you are pretty darned good at it. We have groups with people like Gus Trim, Tinker Pearce, Dr. Fabrice Cognought (PHD Medieval Swordsmithing), Nathan Claugh (another PHD in the field) Peter Johnsson, Matt Parkenson, Howard Clark, Ric Furrer, Kevin Cashen (though he's mostly a ghost these days, and I can tell you why), John Lundemo, Collin Miller, and many many more. These people know more about making swords and blades than 99.999% of the world, they know more than you, they know more than me (and I'm no slouch), so tone down the strutting and crowing, listen to your betters, learn things. this way you will earn respect.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 1, 2021 6:12:13 GMT
rereading the email to OP and I just cannot help but cringe. The very first thing said is basically "I know we told you we would replace your item, but I don't like that anymore and I think I'm going to change the deal (cue Darth Vader voice) "Pray I do not change it further. . ." (emperial march outtro)
SERIOUSLY!? look, if you tell a guy you will do X thing to fix his problem, DO IT! your integrity rides on the fact of you following up your words with actions that match. this is a really low move. just bad
|
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 1, 2021 6:21:24 GMT
If he can't reliably through harden a thick 1095 blade, he's using the wrong steel for his set up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 1, 2021 6:24:14 GMT
If he can't reliably through harden a thick 1095 blade, he's using the wrong steel for his set up. Agreed. 1095 can be difficult this way. it is not really the easy beginner steel people think it is. but what is the truth? is the oven too short? is an oven even involved? there have been several different situations mentioned or implied and they can't all be true |
|
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,114
|
Post by admin on Jun 1, 2021 6:30:21 GMT
Someone who makes and sells blades knows better than to say blades are case hardened and not spring tempered when they are. Basically what it boils down to is either you're lying, or he's lying about the HT. If he's lying, then you're supporting a liar and shady dealer in your shop. If you're lying, then you know for a fact that you're selling a bad product in your shop. Either way, not a good look, my man. This right here is exactly what you created this site and forum all these years ago, was it not? To get people a good product? To call out the shady ones? To inform people of who was or wasn't a good business? This is shady, and lies were told by someone. And that's the bottom line. Calling the host of the site that helped you get where you are a liar is pretty low, man.. I thought you had been here long enough to know that as long as people follow the rules you can say ANYTHING you want here except if it is about politics or religion. But this is something else now..
The reply from Scorpion clearly had some errors and wrong terminology in it, but the video speaks for itself I think.. If you think this is some kind of grand conspiracy and even the video is faked, I really don't know what to say to that without breaking the rules myself..
Scorpion Swords are not going to post anymore on this and will limit communication to the OP as per standard customer service. The process has been explained, the video is there of a bad and good heat treat and they are doing their best to address the original customer. Terminology was mixed up and has been admitted to, and I guess that if you want to call a mistake a 'lie' and suggest this is all one shady conspiracy, yeah - I would not blame Scorpion if they joined the long list of vendors and manufacturers who don't have time for this kind of nonsense.
I tried to help because it was clear if they stood alone they would have just been attacked without civility - such was the tone set.Chris has been great to deal with over the years, and has gone out of his way to correct any customer issues or complaints. He is hard working and this business supports his family - and he is very upset that some people here seem to take delight in attacking in a very unhelpful way when an issue comes up and the response is not perfect.
How many times do I have to say you can express ANY opinion, but do it with decorum for crying out loud! Calling people liars when it was a mistake of terminology or a lack of knowledge is just plain hostile and downright rude. Plus it retards the industry and causes manufacturers to retreat from the community and just do their own thing when it could have been improved if basic civility was the order of the day..
Oh well, I tried to make a place where manufacturers can get feedback and improve their products. I really did..
Other than enforcing the rules, I am out of this thread now too.
- Admin |
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jun 1, 2021 7:01:09 GMT
rereading the email to OP and I just cannot help but cringe. The very first thing said is basically "I know we told you we would replace your item, but I don't like that anymore and I think I'm going to change the deal (cue Darth Vader voice) "Pray I do not change it further. . ." (emperial march outtro) SERIOUSLY!? look, if you tell a guy you will do X thing to fix his problem, DO IT! your integrity rides on the fact of you following up your words with actions that match. this is a really low move. just bad I replied to this one since the other one was so long,, but yes it does seem to really want to bend at that one spot in the middle. I can also bend it right where the blade meets the handle, but nowhere near as much or as easily. I'm not sitting around bending it over and over again,,, though,, this is just from the bends you saw, and the ones you didn't see when I fixed it after the gatorade bottle, and fixed it better after the video. ,,, while fixing it the second time, I did accidentally bend it at the handle, i need to be careful to hold it on either side of the bend and not the extremes when returning it to straight. If I just hold the ends it won't really fix the bend proper, but will result in some slight warping near the bend, like a kinked wire. I will also suggest the edge retention isn't particularly good, so it's all related. as for case hardening, well, I imagined it as you describe, it's a really thick bar all the way down, so it just won't cool it all the way through. But I still wonder if the problem is quenching too many in a row in too small of an oil tube, heating the oil. I think it must stay hotter in the middle of the blade in this case, and cool at the tip a bit more. as for the oven, I can see that also resulting in a soft middle. I bought another blade that was a little bit similar,, I can't say for sure. It's a budk "forged warrior" jungle machete. It's like a kukri. It's interesting,,, the edge retention is pretty good, but it bends right above the handle. it is also quite a thick piece, but because it's shorter, it's less of an issue,, although it is always an issue. It has some fullers,, there, but they are ground in,, I was thinking about cold-hammering a fuller section into that one and seeing if it stiffens up,,, I wonder if the daywalker would take the same treatment. Like, I could cold hammer a fuller all the way down it and then it would get stiffer. I don't have any sort of relevant experience other than discussions like this, or a place to do it, but I have hammered on some metal before. (so loud, my neighborhood ,, I can't really do that sort of thing, I live in honolulu where everyone is so close together). anyway, it seems like if you cold-hammered a fuller down it , it would get more rigid from work-hardening. |
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 1, 2021 11:42:21 GMT
We had reasonable questions after Chris' very strange statements but he never came back to try to answer them. You tried, Paul,but that's not the same. He also never came back to admit he misspoke or just plain didn't know what "case hardening" meant when he said it. People make mistakes. But he hasn't clarified a bit after posting contradictory red flags about his heat treat. So we wanted to hear from him.
He could get so, SO much useful feedback here on his products if he would just ask for it. This is not a failing of the forum.
|
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 1, 2021 11:47:26 GMT
The reply from Scorpion clearly had some errors and wrong terminology in it... Terminology was mixed up and has been admitted to Well, he hasn't admitted that to us. Did he admit that to you? |
|
