|
Post by commandpostman1969 on May 3, 2021 20:17:53 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 3:30:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by commandpostman1969 on May 4, 2021 6:16:44 GMT
That’s the 1st solid confirmation on the model! Outstanding!
Is this particular model rare? Is it worth having the handle re-wrapped?
V/R
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 7:09:08 GMT
I would say yes on a re-wrap but take time to research particulars. Having an intact scabbard is outstanding. If there are discerning marks on the blade, those may place it better in time. It could well be towards the 1790s. www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5459198I had seen your post on facebook but had skimmed right past, as there are some terrifically knowledgeable folk there on the French swords. You should also post to this section sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/board/60/renaissance-military-swords as there are some that visit only that area. These French swords aren't really my study but I recognized the general form. Rare should be regarded as less seen but even as is, a very nice item not surfacing much. Cheers GC In addendum, there are various suggestions for cleaning and "restorations" and it is all very subjective. A note on the scabbard, always support it on a flat surface, or only vertical when removing the blade or putting it back. I can suggest Pecards antique leather dressing. There are lots of alternatives. It does darken leather but that is a black finish. It is beeswax and white spirits. Armor-All is getting good marks. Here's is a good overall treatise that is handy and more at the linked sub-forum. www.fordemilitaryantiques.com/articles/2019/7/18/antique-sword-cleaning
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on May 4, 2021 15:47:30 GMT
As I’ve said often to others, get some oil on the leather of that scabbard before it dries out more and continues to crack all the way. Any of the leather care products will work. If confused visit Amazon on the web.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 20:19:58 GMT
A problem is that 200 year old leather does not want to be softened and then rip and break. Rather that the waxes (such as Pecards and and Renaissance Wax) with white spirits penetrate and stiffen preventing cracking and breaking. Again a lot of it is purely subjective. Here is a 230 year old scabbard that was becoming red dry rot and now preserved with Pecards Then another 230 year old scabbard here that needs nothing, as it had all of its original waxed finish. Note lots of surface cracks that could be filled with thin waxes, or expose nekkid leather with oils that actually weaken thin antique leather. It is one I choose to keep clean and dry. That is un-oiled 230 year old steel. Or another here not quite as old that had been cared for with wax in its working life The original finishes were a buffed wax, not oiled. They often appear with lots of cracking but that is the surface coat. If doused with oil, the leather will soften and be prone to ripping/breaking. Let's look at another un-messed with 200+ yr old scabbard. A candidate for thin wax applications, not turning antique leather to puppy poo with oils. Again, a subjective topic of caring for antique leather but you will not find museum conservators treating leather with oils. Cheers GC
|
|
|
Post by commandpostman1969 on May 7, 2021 2:52:33 GMT
Any idea on an insurance value?
|
|
|
Post by snubnoze on May 7, 2021 16:48:53 GMT
Armor-All is getting good marks. Having detailed cars professionally for many years I can advise to stay clear of this product for pretty much any purpose. While it is good at deflecting damaging sunlight, it also clogs the pores of the leather which can lead to cracking in the distant future. It's also greasy nasty stuff. A product like Lexol is much better. The key to maintaining leather is making sure its consistently clean, with some conditioning to make sure it doesn't go dry. The oil you use to protect metal surfaces should also not be used on leather as it can create the same problem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 17:56:18 GMT
Again we are looking at 200+ year old leather that had been polished with wax. I have never even looked at the MSDS for any Armor-All protectant product info and I am afraid I spoke of this out of hand. I can't recall the specific product but from google "water, PDMS (silicone), diethylene glycol, glycerin, and various additional chemical compounds" We are also regarding vegetable tanned leather vs chrome (other) tanned leather. Here we have Lexol www.cfd.coop/msds/1501115%2020160126%20Handstands%20Lexol%20Leather%20Cleaner.pdfAmmonium Lauryl Ether Sulfate CAS No 2235-54-3 10 - < 25 % Eye Irrit. 2 / H319 Ammonium Chloride CAS No 12125-02-9 EC No 235-186-4 1 - < 5 % Acute Tox. 4 / H302 Eye Irrit. 2 / H319 IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE <1 % Acute Tox. 4 / H302 Acute Tox. 3 / H331 Eye Dam. 1 / H318 Skin Sens. 1 / H317 STOT RE 1 / H372 Aquatic Acute 1 / H400 Aquatic Chronic 1 / H410 We are not trying to clean the leather. Pecards has white spirits to penetrate with beeswax. That's pretty much it. Renaissance Wax conservationsupportsystems.com/system/assets/msds/Renaissance_Wax.pdfBoth Pecards and Renaissance Wax use petroleum distillates, and waxes. They penetrate and preserve/stabilize the leather. Again, it can all be a bit subjective but I don't use oils on my scabbards. Cheers GC
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on May 8, 2021 1:10:19 GMT
Armor-All is getting good marks. A product like Lexol is much better. The key to maintaining leather is making sure its consistently clean, with some conditioning to make sure it doesn't go dry. The oil you use to protect metal surfaces should also not be used on leather as it can create the same problem. I used Lexol on my roadster’s leather back in the 60s. I see that they have expanded their line considerably. The sun and rain failed to damage the leather and I saw others that failed to care for theirs resulting destruction.
|
|
|
Post by snubnoze on May 10, 2021 21:54:42 GMT
Lexol makes a conditioner which is what I was suggesting. Just offering my 2 cents from my experience in car detailing leather, which may not exactly apply to antique sword leather. More just giving a warning about Armor All as I've had terrible experiences with that product. Thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 22:51:13 GMT
Lexol makes a conditioner which is what I was suggesting. Just offering my 2 cents from my experience in car detailing leather, which may not exactly apply to antique sword leather. More just giving a warning about Armor All as I've had terrible experiences with that product. Thanks. What the three I've mentioned share is a wax to preserve the leather. Armor All (iirc) has lanolin (as well as wax), which is probably what you experienced as overly greasy. Saddle soap as well has the conditioning/cleaning effect with wax. A good many of us use many things on hand. The fellow mentioning Armor All was probably experimenting but the the end result when dry is the wax to stabilize things. Lanolin is touted by some in the military knife crowd as the elixir of god for leather grips. Lanolin is part of why some like sheep's wool lined scabbards. As mentioned a few times, it is all a bit subjective and my small tub of Pecards Antique and two tins of Pecards black, and brown, will outlive my need of them. Whatever floats one boat but I have the remains of several scabbards literally crumbling to soggy messes after being "helped" with oils. Cheers GC
|
|