tera
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Post by tera on May 1, 2021 4:19:07 GMT
I am returning to practcing Japanese sword arts after a long hiatus. The first thing I noticed is my old Hanwei Iaito seems to have doubled in price since I bought it. It is solidly built, so I am glad to see the company do well, but I am looking for a first cutter on a budget. Since the Ryujin line seems to be out of stock of most options, I've had to look around. I admit to the embarassing fixation on purple/deep lavender tsuka ito. I found the following model and wonder if anyone in these forums has had any dealings with this company: www.samuraiswordsmith.com/products/handmade-japanese-samurai-functional-sword-katana-foldedsteel-blade-can-cut-treeSo, first off, "can-cut-tree" being in the URL is a bit cringe. Second, they say the blade material is "folded steel." I have sent an inquiry asking what grade of steel, how it is heat treated, and if they have rockwell hardness ratings. This supposedly has hard wood saya and tsuka, with real same. I don't care about mono-temper as long as it is fit and safe for newbie test cutting. At this price, good steel may be too good to be true. Secondarily, does anyone know if/when Ryujin custom options will begin to restock? They have purple ito, a few tsuba I'd be fine with, but are out of black saya. I guess I'm late to the game. Please be gentle, first post.
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Post by jester on May 1, 2021 8:10:15 GMT
Don't even waste time in emailing these guys, have a look at the various guides on here about vendors and start from there. Plenty of reputable and honest companies have decent cutters for the price range you want. Just to say one, have a look at Kult of Athena.
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kaiyo
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Post by kaiyo on May 1, 2021 14:51:20 GMT
overprice garbage, with the usual gringy keywords
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tera
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Post by tera on May 1, 2021 18:03:42 GMT
Many thanks. After doing more reading I am looking at the Musashi line from a couple of the reputed vendors listed on this site.
Cosmetically, they are lacking. However, if the steel isn't good I'd only be buying a wall-hanger.
Thanks again
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Post by jester on May 1, 2021 18:29:38 GMT
Many thanks. After doing more reading I am looking at the Musashi line from a couple of the reputed vendors listed on this site. Cosmetically, they are lacking. However, if the steel isn't good I'd only be buying a wall-hanger. Thanks again Look, if you care about efficiency AND aesthetic, I'd suggest the following: get a proper blade from a well known company in the price range you have in mind, then unmount it and buy fittings to your taste. Send tsuka and fittings to someone able to do this type of job and with the price you paid plus some extra for parts and job, you will get a good sword with no issues that also looks exactly like you want it.
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Post by skane on May 1, 2021 18:30:19 GMT
If you want quality over bling, get an entry level Huawei 9260 or T10. 9260 models start at $200. Better mount and blade quality than any of the drop-down-menu "custom" sellers in the same price range. www.huaweiswords.com/index.php?route=common/homeMusashi is good for sub $200 if budget is limited.
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Post by skane on May 1, 2021 18:44:34 GMT
Many thanks. After doing more reading I am looking at the Musashi line from a couple of the reputed vendors listed on this site. Cosmetically, they are lacking. However, if the steel isn't good I'd only be buying a wall-hanger. Thanks again Look, if you care about efficiency AND aesthetic, I'd suggest the following: get a proper blade from a well known company in the price range you have in mind, then unmount it and buy fittings to your taste. Send tsuka and fittings to someone able to do this type of job and with the price you paid plus some extra for parts and job, you will get a good sword with no issues that also looks exactly like you want it. This is the best way to get best blade and mount quality and aesthetic for the price. Good advice.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 1, 2021 20:19:21 GMT
Many thanks. After doing more reading I am looking at the Musashi line from a couple of the reputed vendors listed on this site. Cosmetically, they are lacking. However, if the steel isn't good I'd only be buying a wall-hanger. Thanks again Look, if you care about efficiency AND aesthetic, I'd suggest the following: get a proper blade from a well known company in the price range you have in mind, then unmount it and buy fittings to your taste. Send tsuka and fittings to someone able to do this type of job and with the price you paid plus some extra for parts and job, you will get a good sword with no issues that also looks exactly like you want it. Are you able to recommend somebody who does such work economically? Because I think, although I don't KNOW, by the time one buys the blade and the fittings they like and pay somebody to do the job, one hs spent something over $500 and could probably just get a sword customize how they like it from the get-go. Reason I'm saying that is because it seems that the drop-down menu customization people have very decent swords at their higher price points. Yes, no?
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Post by jester on May 1, 2021 21:04:37 GMT
Not in the US, I live in UK. I know a guy here but I don't know any cheap ones in USA.
Avoid drop down menu vendors, quality is rarely good and, even if somehow it is, there are other problems like "they sent you some different fitting by mistake / it takes a year to delivery due to Shangai custom / EMS messes up / etc" and it will be painfully long and expensive to send the item back.
Think in this way: a $500 drop down sword WILL have problems. That will cost other $ and months of waiting. A $500 all inclusive with decent sword, fittings of choice and paid job to assemble them will be almost always a good sword, no mistakes and no returns.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 1, 2021 23:50:21 GMT
Sorry, I'm still new to these forums. For beginners, who are these "dropdown menu vendors" and why should they be avoided? Are you referring to vendor lists on SBG's main website? Are vendors recommended in stickied threads here vetted?
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Post by MichaelRS on May 2, 2021 3:01:56 GMT
Sorry, I'm still new to these forums. For beginners, who are these "dropdown menu vendors" and why should they be avoided? Are you referring to vendor lists on SBG's main website? Are vendors recommended in stickied threads here vetted? It's a pejorative for a lot of the production sword vendors/"forges" like Swords of Northshire or HanBon Forge and a number of others in that category. Referred to as drop-down menus vendors because that's what they use for the most part as you go through their site to customize your sword relating to the blades, ito colors and other sword fixtures. I personally think they serve a purpose, particular for beginners and produce swords in the "good enough for" category. On YouTube you'll have people relating practical experiences regarding various sword vendors and the items they received from them. Pick a vendor and just put in the name (ie Ryan Sword Review or some such) and people doing reviews on those swords will pop up. Of course how much the review is worth would depend on the individual's experience, but since most are Average Joes that might be something that the other Average Joes just starting out could relate to. Matthew Jensen (channel by the same name) does some pretty extensive reviews and endurance testing of various swords and a lot of the stuff he reviews is the sub $500 category. I'm still waiting for my first sword from HanBon Forge. Not a recommendation per se, just saying. I don't have the experience or knowledge base to really recommend anything. I just know when I get the sword if it works for my purposes I'll be passing that along.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 2, 2021 7:04:35 GMT
Not in the US, I live in UK. I know a guy here but I don't know any cheap ones in USA. Avoid drop down menu vendors, quality is rarely good and, even if somehow it is, there are other problems like "they sent you some different fitting by mistake / it takes a year to delivery due to Shangai custom / EMS messes up / etc" and it will be painfully long and expensive to send the item back. Think in this way: a $500 drop down sword WILL have problems. That will cost other $ and months of waiting. A $500 all inclusive with decent sword, fittings of choice and paid job to assemble them will be almost always a good sword, no mistakes and no returns. Well, yeah, I was kind of thinking about all that a couple of weeks ago. But then in my research I'm seeing that people (and there's some guy up in Oregon who's apparently well known, but I forgot his name) who do things like the ito wrap for over $300 š³ ($100 = Ā£72). But if you get all the other fittings, isn't it pretty much a DIY job? I don't know, as I've only seen people take these things apart and putting back together and they seem pretty modular these days, but I'm not aware of what the pitfalls would be in that. I mean I could see the problem with the end cap of the handle (too late for me to think of the Japanese names) as that is where that where the ito threads through and ties off and all that sort of thing, but the rest of the stuff?
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Post by jester on May 2, 2021 8:10:26 GMT
Nothing wrong with a DIY job... But I can see it looks daring. Get a drop down menu sword then. Just be aware of their limits and problems.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 2, 2021 11:56:18 GMT
Look, if you care about efficiency AND aesthetic, I'd suggest the following: get a proper blade from a well known company in the price range you have in mind, then unmount it and buy fittings to your taste. Send tsuka and fittings to someone able to do this type of job and with the price you paid plus some extra for parts and job, you will get a good sword with no issues that also looks exactly like you want it. Because I think, although I don't KNOW, by the time one buys the blade and the fittings they like and pay somebody to do the job, one hs spent something over $500 and could probably just get a sword customize how they like it from the get-go. Donāt forget to add in the shipping on all those parts plus the shipping to and from whomever does the work. The Musashi line offers a good bang for the buck.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 2, 2021 19:30:14 GMT
I appreciate all the input, this is turning into a good example thread of a beginner's journey.
For clarity, what I am shopping for is not intended to be my best sword. It is intended to be a reliable driver while I learn stick, so to speak. I am very happy with my Paul Chen Iaito, but not wanting to spend too much on a sword I may ruin. Of course, the steel and safety are key. The goal is an affordable blade that can SURVIVE someone new to test cutting without failing in a dangerous way (broken blade, broken mekugi, loose ito, etc.)
Based on the above, the Musashi line seems well reputed. I would prefer spring steel for the extra margin of error but I don't know of anyone who makes a well reputed spring steel katana for under $250 or so other than SBG/Ryujin. I'd do the latter, but it feels wrong to pay for a 'custom' (dropdown) sword when they are out of stock of parts for my configuration of choice. I'd rather save money and go "basic" on a model that is safe and, if I merit it, drop serious coin on a truly custom job later.
Those are just my own thoughts on where I find myself, your mileage may vary.
Again, many thanks to everyone for their contributions.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 2, 2021 20:32:07 GMT
I appreciate all the input, this is turning into a good example thread of a beginner's journey. For br] I would prefer spring steel for the extra margin of error but I don't know of anyone who makes a well reputed spring steel katana for under $250 or so other than SBG/Ryujin. Not by way of recommendation, cuz I'm really not qualified at this point to recommend anything, but take a look at HanBon Forge. I ordered a sword from them, SUPPOSEDLY 9260 Spring Steel with certain customization to the blade and engravings, and my total price was $277. Same thing if ordered from Swords of Northshire would be $427. Same thing if indeed it would be the SAME THING. ~35% less cost might just be netting me 35% less sword. Although those that seem to be in the know better say that SoN really mark their stuff up for what it is. My theory, based on all the anecdotal information I've collected on this over the last month, is that most of these various vendors over there get their swords from two or three production shops/forges. Each of those places in turn gives swords to the vendor at the quality level the VENDOR wants or will tolerate for their suckers...I mean clients, like us. But then it goes back to my theory that the production places all have their place in the food chain as "goid enough", especially for the very beginner ywho just wants to semprini around to see if they will like doing laido or cutting or whatever. Again, pretty much the point my man Matthew Jensen makes in one of his videos when reviewing the ~$50 Musashi. Of course your experience would be much better if you got a purpose built laito from Japan that did not hang up in the scabbard or the ito started to come off after two or three hours of aggregate use (addressing the latter I have a recent thread regarding lacquering one's ito that a lot of people with experience have left if on. I'll try to remember to come back and link it below), but it is what it is. And then again some of us would like to get involved NOW in some fashion but we are indeed on a budget (myself being on a fixed retirement income) and so "good enough" for now has to do. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/64194/lacquering-ito
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nddave
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Post by nddave on May 3, 2021 3:10:42 GMT
Ok let's see what we can figure out to find you a decent beginner sword,
1) What's your actual budget? (Be upfront and honest with this, and no wide ballparks for example $200-$500, be truthful. If you can spend $500 say so, if only $100 or $250 ect, say that.)
2) What will be your actual usage and honest expected time using the sword? (Need as upfront and honest as you can be with this question too. For example don't say tatami and bamboo if you have no access to those mediums. Also don't say you're going to the Dojo or cutting for two hours a day every day unless your going to, if it's simply to own and casually use if at all be honest with that.)
3) What's your aesthetic flavor? (This revolves around the colors, koshirae (hilt fittings) and other aesthetic qualities you prefer such as Bo-hi ( blade fuller) hamon (temper line) blade length, handle length, ect. What appeals to you and your taste in aesthetics.)
Answer these three questions and I and others here can find you a sword that will fit you.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 3, 2021 4:12:27 GMT
1) $300 as budget. I can neither afford nor feel it would be right to get, say, a Howard Clark or quality Nihonto only to wreck it while learning.
2) Rare cutting use, but with increasing regularity over time. To be honest, my Paul Chen Iaito is my primary practice tool, but I cannot test my cuts with it.
3) Aestheitically, I do find a properly cut bo-hi helps me know what is going on with a cut and prefer one. I have minor background in Toyama Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu, but claim no rank or expertise. Neither of those Sensei allowed anything flashy in the dojo. However, a student (different art, not a sword school) once designed for me a crest, also associating indigo/purple flowers with my person. As such, it would be nice to have purple ito and sageo.
For blade shape, kissaki shape, blade length, etc. That is more about fitment and school style. I have no illusion that fitment can be figured out without a proper teacher. However, I have done well with the Paul Chen Musashi Iaito and my Sensei gave it modest approval for use. I admit, I really, really like the tight leather ito. My only complaint is my draw would be faster if the balance point were further to the rear. I suspect the minimal, iron Musashi style tsuba contributes to this. While I love the minimalist style, a heavier tsuba might help. It is also a little long. I am 5'9 so it is a bit of a stretch, but almost everyone does 27" or 28" blade length as standard. My background schools do not typically employ unusually long tsuka.
So, to be broad, sword length, curvature, kissaki, and features should fit sword schools that emphasize cutting on the draw. Iai/Battou is the nature of my meager training.
No trees, fruit, pork, or other insane targets. I am not some fruit ninja. My goal is to test if what I practice in Kata translates to clean cuts on tatami or, as I have read some use, rolled damp newspaper (which I fear may scratch the blade). I believe bamboo would be out of reach for a while. I would want to check myself with one of my old Sensei before moving to hard targets.
For a first shinken, it doesn't HAVE to have purple, floral themed koshirae. It would be nice, but I could always save for a better set up once I have demonstrated competence. It just needs to be safe, both metalurgically and in design (full-tang, double mekugi preferred).
I hope that doesn't all sound nuts. Thank you for the offer of aid and for everyone's guidance.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 3, 2021 4:30:41 GMT
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nddave
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Post by nddave on May 3, 2021 7:58:43 GMT
Ok tera, here are a few of my suggestions that I think will benefit you regarding regarding a beginner katana in your $300 price point and expected use, www.kultofathena.com/product/ronin-katana-dojo-pro-model-15/This is the Ronin Dojo Pro #15, a good quality sub $300 katana know for its durable 1060 Thoroughly hardened blade and simple but quality koshirea. This one I feel is right for you due to not only its tested durability and forgiveness to the beginner due to its TH blade but also its unqiue 26" blade length that fits your desired shorter but not too short length. I've owned this model for many years and it's one of my favorite katana. Only mark on this one is it lacks bo-hi. sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/product569.htmlNext up is the Ryujin custom T-10. The blades are a nicely forged Differentialy Hardned T-10. Basic fittings comparable to other Ebay custom katana and various colors and koshirae to choose. Making your purple ito and floral tsuba a possibility. This model also features Bo-Hi. Plus compared to the hit and miss Ebay shenanigans with this custom you're backed as a customer by SBG's top customer service and return policy. www.swordnarmory.com/sword/JH-6319RD/Last there's this Munetoshi T-10 sword by Swordnarmory. Munetoshi is their home brand and are nice beginner katana due to their simple but well fitted koshirea and durable DH T-10 blades. Munetoshi has kinda dropped off the radar as of late but their new models like this one seem to be a lot nicer looking than their older models and those were quite popular in reviews and impressions. Also Swordnarmory are a great vendor and too offer solid customer service, pre shipment inspections and return policy. Sadly that's really all I could find as many swords are simply out of stock right now. I really think you would enjoy one of these three though as your beginner sword. I feel the Ronin is your best bet regarding specs and usage but any of them would be a good fit for you. Btw here are links to my reviews I done on both the Dojo Pro 15 and Ryujin Wakizashi I own to give you a feel of the swords. Sorry the images are missing from the Ronin review they were lost during a forum revamp a few years ago. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/47602/ronin-katana-model-blade-review
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