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Post by MichaelRS on Apr 25, 2021 0:31:40 GMT
I wonder why the producers of lower end Japanese swords don't use faux ray skin (and simply state it as such) instead of the real thing to save cost?
As I've mentioned in other threads, to a point I don't care too much about the other stuff as long as the blade I'm getting is as advertised.
I mean, if they can use "imitation silk" and faux leather, why bother with real Ray skin? Why not a fake Ray Skin of a hard rubber (or whatever the texture of the race skin is) and be proud of it? Then they could give it a full wrap with big nodules for about 25 cents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 0:56:43 GMT
Hanwei still uses plastic for their basic (classic) Practical katana. The first generation even used plastic habaki but they proved too fragile for that purpose. Plastic menuki as well and basic cotton ito. My 2002/03 practical trucks on after more than a decade of being a loaner at gatherings for cutting.
Cheers GC
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Post by alientude on Apr 25, 2021 1:42:40 GMT
My guess is that it adds pretty minimal cost for the maker to buy low end quality ray skin, plus they might use scrap pieces and glue them together. The benefit is they can advertise "REAL authentic samegawa."
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 25, 2021 1:54:58 GMT
Partly because the genuine material does offer advantages difficult to replicate in synthetics (hardness, texture), partly because it's not exactly expensive (stingrays are farmed pretty heavily in the eastern world as a food source, and their skin is used for a lot; I've had a stingray skin wallet for 10-15 years and just ordered a new one because the...nylon? Polyester?...card slot has suddenly fallen apart; cost me $50), but mostly because people buying katana want as much "genuine" and "authentic" materials as they can get, and a strip of stingray skin is a small thing that makes a lot of those people buy your sword over the other guy's.
Much like synthetic silk is not really all that desirable, synthetics for stingray skin are just kinda meh. I have an old Hanwei Practical, as mentioned by Edelweiss, with plastic "same" panels and suede-like ito. Literally every other katana I've ever owned has had a longer-lasting wrap than that one. It gave up on me maybe a year into owning it, but I did swing it around a lot. I've been a little less hands-on with my other katana, but their wraps have always been better from the very beginning. These aren't even high-quality examples, either.
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Post by MichaelRS on Apr 25, 2021 2:18:48 GMT
Thanks guys. 👍 I appreciate the insight from thems that know. 😁
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 26, 2021 17:31:09 GMT
What Random said: It's a cheap and easily obtained material that is probably cheaper than synthetic and can be advertised as "authentic". And it's not like they are using the prime cuts of the skin- they are literally using the scrap pieces from other industries.
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Post by jonessteave on Sept 23, 2022 6:16:01 GMT
Partly because the genuine material does offer advantages difficult to replicate in synthetics (hardness, texture), partly because it's not exactly expensive (stingrays are farmed pretty heavily in the eastern world as a food source, and their skin is used for a lot; I've had a stingray skin wallet for 10-15 years and just ordered a new one because the...nylon? Polyester?...card slot has suddenly fallen apart; cost me $50), but mostly because people buying katana want as much "genuine" and "authentic" materials as they can get, and a strip of stingray skin is a small thing that makes a lot of those people buy your sword over the other guy's.
Much like synthetic silk is not really all that desirable, synthetics for stingray skin are just kinda meh. I have an old Hanwei Practical, as mentioned by Edelweiss, with plastic "same" panels and suede-like ito. Literally every other katana I've ever owned has had a longer-lasting wrap than that one check this wallet collection. It gave up on me maybe a year into owning it, but I did swing it around a lot. I've been a little less hands-on with my other katana, but their wraps have always been better from the very beginning. These aren't even high-quality examples, either. I am looking at the possibility of one of these and can't find anything other than the product descriptions, which are much different than an honest review. So, had anyone here had an "exotic" leather wallet? I currently have a Stewart Stand stainless steel wallet, I had one from about 1.5 years ago, all stainless, which fatigued after opening and closing (which makes sense) and cracked along the fold. They promptly sent me a newer version which had a metallic looking fabric along the fold and on the inside, which has held up much better, although the stitching is starting to fray a little. I think it is time I got a leather wallet, but still want something different. Thanks for your help
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Post by pellius on Sept 23, 2022 10:33:44 GMT
Personally, I’ve had great success with these guys: www.tecovas.com/Their boots and belts are, imho, as well made and attractive as other brands twice their cost. They aren’t bespoke, mind you. Still, I think they make some of the better off-the-shelf leather products. If I wasn’t required to carry a specialty wallet, I would get a bifold from them, too. fwiw
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Sept 23, 2022 16:38:36 GMT
I know we had a guy about 5 years back selling Rayskin wallets here. So they exist...and doing a quick seearch, 'rayskin leather wallet' wow, lots out there. The sky's the limit
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Post by ambulocetus on Oct 18, 2022 3:19:06 GMT
A few years ago I got a really cheap sword from Arts Feng that has some kind of artificial same. You can stick your fingernail inbetween the ito and feel that it isn't organic. I have no idea if they still have that or even if Arts Feng is still around. I didn't really mind because it felt relatively strong and it's a full wrap. Personally, I'd rather have a full wrap of an artificial material than panels of real rayskin, as long as it's strong enough for the job. In fact I wrapped the handle of one of my swords in carbon fiber instead of same. I posted about it a while back- sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53344/new-tsuka-hanwei-renshu
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,577
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Post by Yagoro on Oct 18, 2022 4:21:24 GMT
A few years ago I got a really cheap sword from Arts Feng that has some kind of artificial same. You can stick your fingernail inbetween the ito and feel that it isn't organic. I have no idea if they still have that or even if Arts Feng is still around. I didn't really mind because it felt relatively strong and it's a full wrap. Personally, I'd rather have a full wrap of an artificial material than panels of real rayskin, as long as it's strong enough for the job. In fact I wrapped the handle of one of my swords in carbon fiber instead of same. I posted about it a while back- sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53344/new-tsuka-hanwei-renshu Blasphemy! in all seriousness looks pretty good for a modern take. However authentic same is a very good material for ito to stick to, and large enough panels are key in keeping the wrap in place(among other things). As long as the panels arent super skinny(as seen on thaitsuki), i always prefer authentic to imitation. Imitation is also much weaker than authentic.
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