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Post by treeslicer on Apr 12, 2021 23:58:54 GMT
To begin with, yes, I'm aware that this isn't a genuine Württemberg 1859 Cavalry sword. But given that all the parts appear original, what I paid for it, and that I got it to cut and stab things with, as well as practice fencing, I'm unlikely to pitch a fit over it. The photos are self explanatory, and my questions are at the end of them.
The last photo above compares an original M1859 guard with the artless but labor-intensive pastiching of the Württemberg heraldry on the guard of my example. Given that the pommel looks to be an original Württemberg part, could this guard (or entire hilt) have been vandalized from an M1868, do you think? If not that, then from what? Has anyone here seen this particular sword before?
I suspect that this Frankensaber bears some relation to the various Aushilfssäbel cobbled together from parts circa 1915, and was a "bringback".
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Apr 13, 2021 12:05:24 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 13, 2021 15:01:42 GMT
Thanks loads, Uhlan ! If you say it's real, then that settles it. I had no idea that a model could vary so much, and still be fully authentic. The first thing that I noticed was the lack of the finger loop nut, then the narrower guard strap. I'd already looked at the gallery at the Blankwaffen forum while doing my "homework" on the piece before bidding on it, and hadn't found a full match for it. I was expecting everybody to tear into me for buying crap.
I guess this means that I seriously got lucky. This is the first German saber that I ever bought.
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Post by snubnoze on Apr 13, 2021 20:28:27 GMT
I was watching that one as well but didn't bid since I already have a pipe back - bought a relatively cheap Argentine 1898 to play with. Congrats! It should clean up nicely. Really like the look of the guard. I too did some homework and seemingly found the same thread as you: www.blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=10115
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 13, 2021 21:30:40 GMT
I was watching that one as well but didn't bid since I already have a pipe back - bought a relatively cheap Argentine 1898 to play with. Congrats! It should clean up nicely. Really like the look of the guard. I too did some homework and seemingly found the same thread as you: www.blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=10115Thanks! I took another, longer browse through photos, and I can now see that the Württemburg sabers are a lot less uniform in configuration than I expected. The guards and blades can be especially variable in minor details.
I also have some confirmation from sellers that the swords currently popping up on the US market were WW II GI bringbacks. It seems that there was this warehouse in Heilbronn where tons of swords were piled up, just waiting to be liberated for the Allied cause..... These bringbacks are now surfacing at estate sales, gun shows, eBay, etc. There seems to be a particular cluster of them in North and South Carolina including Austrian M1850's, various Württemburgers, Baden swords, etc. Keep your eyes open for these.
Mine got mailed today, and should arrive on Saturday, God willing. I'll update when I get it.
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Post by snubnoze on Apr 14, 2021 2:01:30 GMT
I was watching that one as well but didn't bid since I already have a pipe back - bought a relatively cheap Argentine 1898 to play with. Congrats! It should clean up nicely. Really like the look of the guard. I too did some homework and seemingly found the same thread as you: www.blankwaffenforum.de
I also have some confirmation from sellers that the swords currently popping up on the US market were WW II GI bringbacks. It seems that there was this warehouse in Heilbronn where tons of swords were piled up, just waiting to be liberated for the Allied cause..... These bringbacks are now surfacing at estate sales, gun shows, eBay, etc. There seems to be a particular cluster of them in North and South Carolina including Austrian M1850's, various Württemburgers, Baden swords, etc. Keep your eyes open for these. Interesting I didn't know that. I recently started to fall in love with sabers, and swinging that Argentine I picked up around really helped spark that. I've been checking e-bay daily now I need more blade types to feel out.
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Post by pellius on Apr 14, 2021 3:47:50 GMT
Treeslicer - nice acquisition you got there. Also, interesting info.
Snubnoze - the Argentine 1898 is my favorite pipeback. Great choice.
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 19, 2021 16:46:13 GMT
The saber has arrived, and the seller got his well-deserved 5-star feedback. The saber is light, lively, well-balanced, and fits my hand very well in a fencing grip. The terminal spearpoint area (corresponding to the monouchi of a katana) had been sharpened before, and a few passes with a 3000 grit ruby stone restored it nicely. The sword amounts to a 10 inch stiletto blade on a 21-inch extension, with an excellent grip behind that. The pool-noodle end in the photo says it all. I made and attached an appropriate-looking and functional portepee, which is now the pattern for Treeslicer's Freikorps and Home Cavalry Regiment . I'm tremendously pleased with my new sword, and am going back to doing saber drills, now that I have a decent saber again. Beats the crap out of using a repro, that would have cost about the same.
Here's something to set the mood.
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Post by jimmythedonut on Apr 20, 2021 12:22:02 GMT
The blade looks remarkably similar to the Swiss 1867 dismounted quillpoint blade, especially at around 31" which is exactly what theirs were. Out of curiosity, what is the weight of yours? Mine are both right around 700 grams give or take and while extremely light I've no doubt they could slice through anything as they have a nice forward weighted but nimble blade
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 20, 2021 20:30:07 GMT
The blade looks remarkably similar to the Swiss 1867 dismounted quillpoint blade, especially at around 31" which is exactly what theirs were. Out of curiosity, what is the weight of yours? Mine are both right around 700 grams give or take and while extremely light I've no doubt they could slice through anything as they have a nice forward weighted but nimble blade
Too many differences, not least that the blade on mine is more curved. I'm now convinced that mine is a private-purchase variant of the Württemberg 1859 Cavalry officer's saber as provided by WKC at some time or other prior to WW !. It may turn up in an old catalog sooner or later. Great little fencer. Cuts and stabs targets quite well, too.
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