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Post by notthesharpest on Apr 9, 2021 17:17:43 GMT
Hi, everyone
I have been an irregular lurker for a while and have now come with a question.
I have long had an interest in 18th - 20th C. infantry sabers and their use. Life isn't getting any longer, so I have decided to go ahead and dive in to the subject.
That said - I am looking for advice on two topics - 1) texts to work with and 2) a saber for drilling and cutting practice.
On the subject of texts, English language would be the first choice, although I could probably still muddle my way through a source in German.
On the subject of the saber, I would be cutting water-filled milk jugs and green bamboo targets with it. (I have a fair amount of experience on both types of targets with blades from Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines - although nothing over 28 inches.) I would prefer a production piece to start with - I don't want to have to wait months/years for a custom piece, and I am skittish about using antiques.
Thanks for the guidance...
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Post by markus313 on Apr 9, 2021 18:05:58 GMT
I like Roworth and/or Angelo for earlier 19th and Waite and late Angelo for mid-end 19th century. All quite easy to learn from and on top you get a lot of good youtube stuff from qualified instructors (for example, Nick Thomas on Roworth and Matt Easton on Waite). Of course nothing goes above taking lessons in person. Finding a good repro infantry sabre is not an easy task, to say the least. Some repros I enjoy that are suited for cutting are the Windlass Shamshir (for the earlier sources) and the Windlass Confederate Cavalry Officer's Saber (for the later sources). I also like the CS English Backsword, which would be suited for Roworth/Angelo. Then there's the Windlass 1840 NCO if you like it more pokey. Also heard good things about the CS Marine NCO saber (seemingly out of production though). I like the CS 1796 Light Cavalry best, but that can be quite demanding for starting out with.
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 9, 2021 18:27:31 GMT
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Post by notthesharpest on May 1, 2021 11:10:49 GMT
Hi, Markus and TS I have acquired the texts you recommended, and have taken a glance at them all. But, I have yet to have a chance to go through them in detail. I am of mixed minds - I am familiar with Olympic style fencing (never liked it much and Barbasetti even shares one of my main gripes about it). On the other hand, my hands-on experience with real blades is with things on the shorter, drawcut or chop side.
So, I already feel I will be familiar with the footwork-place that Barbasetti will be coming from, but suspect that Roworth or the earlier Angelo would be more familiar from a cutting style. Any thoughts on the topic?
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Post by wlewisiii on May 2, 2021 20:48:52 GMT
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Post by unistat76 on May 14, 2021 11:00:42 GMT
Reading this thread, all I can think is, "Ah, I see you studied your Agrippa!"
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Post by markus313 on May 14, 2021 13:33:45 GMT
For real cutting, you'd need to look into Joachim Meyer's dussack section (Kunst des Fechtens, 1570). Not quite your timeframe, of course. Plenty of accounts of people using those techniques in real fights of the 18th/19th century, though. Just how nature likes to work, I guess.
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Post by vercingtorix on Jun 28, 2021 15:52:26 GMT
Roworth and Taylor 4th edt. is kinda my go-to text for sabre and broadsword fundamentals. He's really detailed about body mechanics of cuts and presents several good plays that can get you through the basics of fencing. Kind of a great middle ground starting point that will have you ready to either go back to earlier sources like wylde or page, or into newer sources like waite.
Kind of a video drilling system that you could do solo is Jay Maas's "COVID solo training" playlist that he posted on the broadsword academy manitoba youtube. He's focused on broadsword, but it's all more or less the same system.
As for a sabre to play with:
most production sharps are too far forward weighted to be useful.
Just eyeballing the stats on KoA, Cold Steel's Italian Duelling Sabre seems like it would be one of the few decent production sabres. Honestly, when I cool down from this last round of antique and feder purchases, this would probably be my next sharp purchase.
Some of the indian made (windlass, universal, et al) US and CS 1850 infantry sabre replicas have somewhat passable stats, but even they're about an inch too far forward for what those swords should feel like. They leave me iffy on stats, though, and I already have a french 1845 to play with, so I'd personally avoid these.
Hanwei's Cromwell and Scottish Backsword are decent. A bit on the high end of weight, but still historical and balanced quite well at just over 2 inches, although you may need to make some adjustments to the grip, as they're quite thin. You could go with either of these, but they're not something I'd advise starting off with -- they're dead-weight heavy and are a good way to injure your wrist and shoulder if you're not conditioned for them. Once you are at that point, though, they're great swords for what they are.
For drilling, as opposed to cut testing, I tend to prefer blunts. At home... I drill with unsharpened antiques. They're a bit heavier than most feders, so they give a good workout when I do angelo's solo drill. In the club, some of the things I like to drill and spar with are the castille armory economy sabre, the VB gymnasium sabre, and if you can get one, Kvetun's Easton Sabres. Where you go for training blunts is really going to depend on what continent you're on, though.
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