|
|
Post by tsmspace on Apr 5, 2021 8:05:43 GMT
The Kabar warsword is not for batoning,, everyone agrees.
ok,, but who really needs to baton?? the answer is,, nobody. Never ever will anyone be desperate to baton in a real survival situation. They might WANT to,, yes,,, it might save TIME,, yes,,, but you can split logs with a tiny knife and some sticks,,, so you don't NEED to do it. Also,, if you are relying on your knife to be a weapon,,, I think it is unwise to get your knife stuck in a log. If you need to run away, or need to put your knife between you and someone or some animal,, and it's stuck in a log,, you don't have it. Basically,, batoning is only an ok decision if you have and EXTRA blade just for that sort of purpose. (and really,, if you already have a big knife,, and you can pick,, you might pick an axe).
So,, now that hammering on the blade with a log over and over again is out,,,, actually, the KABAR warsword is probably more than durable enough to be used as a big huge sharp blade against soft targets. You shouldn't go chopping trees down with it, maybe,,, but,,,, lets say that you live in a city, and need to go survival from there?? Actually, there are lots of reasons why you might not even be in the woods. Then what do you do?
Well,,,,, to cut to the chase,,,,, you make a spear,,, but how?? The argument for MAKING a spear is a long one, but it's a pretty early recommendation if you are going to be trying to run around and survival mode. The KABAR war-sword comes with a small cheapy knife with a skeloton tang and no scales,, and a length of parachord that appears to be otherwise useless. ,,, you have the warsword kit,, and you have a really nice sheath,, and it comes built in with the best diy spear kit you can probably buy. In a city,, you might not have a lot of the same opportunities as the woods. For one thing, the city will have more survivors, and you might not be able to just go anywhere you like,, the areas that are mildly wooded will be very high value turf. Just because you're in an urban environment, doesn't mean a spear won't be extremely useful.
So,,, I have decided, as I state in the video,, that this kabar warsword kit is actually a lot better than I initially thought.
|
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 5, 2021 11:05:52 GMT
I've been doing "outdoors" for 40+ years and never, not once, even when I was in the Army, did I ever have the need to baton wood with my knife. I'm not sure where that came from, either advertising from knife makers, or perhaps from a reality TV show like Survivorman. Either case, if I need to baton wood with my knife, then I need to find smaller bits of wood.
Because think about it. In all the battoning videos, the wood is ALREADY CUT to a convenient length, apparently with a saw of some kind. Therefore, the assumption is that you have access to other wood tools that are more appropriate for the task. Apart from making some fire starting kindling or cutting some tent pegs, I won't use my knife for woodworking
|
|
|
|
Post by Curtis_Louis on Apr 5, 2021 12:16:15 GMT
Same. I've never had to baton in the field. Looks like it could be fun, but a hatchet has always done the chopping for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 12:20:27 GMT
Better advertising makes a difference but put machete and batoning in the ad copy and it is suddenly an attention getter. Add car doors and 2x4, an even must have quality.  Cut rope or add euclid green and suddenly a class in and of themselves. ^^not as cheap^^ Not common anymore   |
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 5, 2021 12:52:59 GMT
Remember the old Buck knives advert where it showed the blade hammering through a nail? I see "battoning" as the modern advertising equivalent. Only back in the 60's and 70's we were smart enough not to hammer our knives through a nail...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 13:17:23 GMT
Too true.
|
|
|
|
Post by Curtis_Louis on Apr 5, 2021 13:21:09 GMT
Remember the old Buck knives advert where it showed the blade hammering through a nail? I see "battoning" as the modern advertising equivalent. Only back in the 60's and 70's we were smart enough not to hammer our knives through a nail... Good example. In the early 80s, I bought a Balisong because the guy behind the counter took his out and proceeded to open it and hammer it through a quarter. I bought one on the spot, and still have that knife to this day. Although, I've never hammered it through a quarter. |
|
|
|
Post by mrbadexample on Apr 5, 2021 13:38:38 GMT
Remember the old Buck knives advert where it showed the blade hammering through a nail? I see "battoning" as the modern advertising equivalent. Only back in the 60's and 70's we were smart enough not to hammer our knives through a nail... Good example. In the early 80s, I bought a Balisong because the guy behind the counter took his out and proceeded to open it and hammer it through a quarter. I bought one on the spot, and still have that knife to this day. Although, I've never hammered it through a quarter. A quarter, eh? That’s an interesting one. I was at Laci Szabo’s table at BLADE around 2007, and he was selling “unbreakable” batons in various lengths. When I asked for clarification on what he meant by unbreakable, he offered to let me bash on a concrete column. His response was not overly polite when I told him I’d rather test his claim by propping a couple on a curb and using them as a ramp for my truck. 😈 |
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Apr 5, 2021 13:41:34 GMT
The ability to baton is a good feature but I would not put it at the top of the list of priorities. I’ve spent much of my life outdoors either for recreation, military, or SAR work and got along without it. But there are times it comes in quite handy. I’m not talking about splitting a piece of wood along its grain as frequently seen on YouTube. Here’s Part 1 of a video I made sometime back to show the point. PS The first machete I had after arriving in Central America was one that was gifted to me. It had been much used and showed signs of batoning. It’s not much to look at but one of the best machetes I have.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 13:44:01 GMT
|
|
seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 1,012
|
Post by seth on Apr 5, 2021 17:03:48 GMT
Same. I've only batoned in survival training. 40+ years of roaming the mountains and hills, and I've never done it usually because I almost always have a hawk or hatchet at hand.
But to echo tsmspace, the Ka-Bar Warsword is a beast of a knife and an incredible deal from Ka-Bar's website at only $40 in the clearance section. The famine tanto is also a great knife too.
|
|
|
|
Post by unistat76 on Apr 5, 2021 18:12:26 GMT
I've been doing bushcraft and survival activities for a bit, and batonning is just another tool. Sometimes it's the best choice, sometimes not.
Making a splitwood fire is sometimes necessary when the available wood is wet. If you have an axe or hatchet, great. If all you have is your knife, you might need to baton that wood apart to get to the dry stuff.
Often, survival isn't about choosing the right tools, it's about knowing how to use the tools you have with you in the most creative ways. You generally don't get to pick when you're in a survival situation, so you roll with what you got.
The more you know, the less you need to carry.
But of course, hike your own hike.
|
|
|
|
Post by howler on Apr 5, 2021 20:21:55 GMT
I've been doing bushcraft and survival activities for a bit, and batonning is just another tool. Sometimes it's the best choice, sometimes not. Making a splitwood fire is sometimes necessary when the available wood is wet. If you have an axe or hatchet, great. If all you have is your knife, you might need to baton that wood apart to get to the dry stuff. Often, survival isn't about choosing the right tools, it's about knowing how to use the tools you have with you in the most creative ways. You generally don't get to pick when you're in a survival situation, so you roll with what you got. The more you know, the less you need to carry. But of course, hike your own hike. This is a good answer, though I'd add that A LOT of the baton videos on the internet show people thumping on monstrous logs with thin blades that are barely longer than what they intend to split. A tough knife just adds versatility, and if done correctly batonning is a piece of cake. Always carry a few tiny knives in pockets and backpack for delicate tasks, but these as well can be done with a jack of all trades robust blade. |
|
|
|
Post by Lionhardt on Apr 6, 2021 4:12:09 GMT
Working in the australian outback as well as just camping and backpacking in the US my whole life, I can't tell you how many times I batonned wood. Of course I didn't know it had a fancy name, but literally countless. Hundreds if not close to 1000 times have I "batonned" wood out there. Chopping it with an axe isn't always the best option. Sometimes chopping it with the knife, even hitting the knife with the axe is the best option for the situation. I'm not going to attempt to explain those exact situations. But when they pop up, you choose that technique. And it happens quite frequently if you aren't afraid of the technique. In fact, I use it so much that having a knife that could so it without blinking was an absolute necessity. If when trying out a new potential knife it showed any signs of not being able to hack that, then that knife was not one that could be considered for real backwoods and survival situations, plain and simple. On such trips I would always carry a tomahawk too and often a good pocket chainsaw. With those three items, you can cut or so anything you need to possibly do.
As such, after trying many of the best "survival" knives out there, the classic SOG Seal is my favorite and the one I carry all the time. There are certainly others that can handle just as much and some tasks even better, but the Seal is my favorite all around that I have found. Hunting, fishing, camping, survival, scuba diving, that is the knife I take for everything, because it can do everything and not flinch.
This Kabar looks like it would be fine!
|
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Apr 6, 2021 4:42:24 GMT
Working in the australian outback as well as just camping and backpacking in the US my whole life, I can't tell you how many times I batonned wood. Of course I didn't know it had a fancy name, but literally countless. Hundreds if not close to 1000 times have I "batonned" wood out there. Chopping it with an axe isn't always the best option. Sometimes chopping it with the knife, even hitting the knife with the axe is the best option for the situation. I'm not going to attempt to explain those exact situations. But when they pop up, you choose that technique. And it happens quite frequently if you aren't afraid of the technique. In fact, I use it so much that having a knife that could so it without blinking was an absolute necessity. If when trying out a new potential knife it showed any signs of not being able to hack that, then that knife was not one that could be considered for real backwoods and survival situations, plain and simple. On such trips I would always carry a tomahawk too and often a good pocket chainsaw. With those three items, you can cut or so anything you need to possibly do. As such, after trying many of the best "survival" knives out there, the classic SOG Seal is my favorite and the one I carry all the time. There are certainly others that can handle just as much and some tasks even better, but the Seal is my favorite all around that I have found. Hunting, fishing, camping, survival, scuba diving, that is the knife I take for everything, because it can do everything and not flinch. This Kabar looks like it would be fine! I'm going to throw it in there that you are not doing survival and post-apoc living,, you are doing work and stuff,, which just works very differently. bushcrafting is useful in the world,, but for example, a marine stranded behind enemy lines with nothing but a combat knife, isn't going to do any bushcrafting. They are going to hide and move constantly until they figure out how to get somewhere, and then they are going to try to get back to their team. They aren't going to maintain parks infrastructure or sit down to pre-manufactured lumber. and,, if they DO need to split a log,, they aren't going to want to find themselves in a situation where their knife is in a log and they can't get it out instantly,, for example if someone with a rifle shows up and they need to run for their life. Their knife will be lost at that time. likewise splitting logs isn't really something you might expect in the paleo age, and is instead something you might expect from someone living within an infrastructure of a stable society. I'm not suggesting it never happened in the paleo age, but I would suggest that most of the tasks an individual would need to do out on some trip won't require it. So,, I don't mean to suggest that batoning has no real value, it's got plenty of value, and it's how they split giant logs with hand tools (I mean, they use specialized blades not their survival knife, but the technique is the same),,, but I mean that for the imaginable situations that one might feel the need for a war-sword (not a bushcrafting knife, a war-sword), batoning is basically not as likely. wanting a spear is highly likely,, meanwhile wanting to make very short logs into smaller pieces is probably not. So,,, anyway,, my suggestion is basically that even though the kabar war-sword is reviewed as a poor choice for batoning, (which it is,, some people bought it, said it was no good), If you are a sword enthusiast, wanting a sword, I think it's actually a very interesting little kit. |
|
|
|
Post by howler on Apr 6, 2021 8:30:13 GMT
Working in the australian outback as well as just camping and backpacking in the US my whole life, I can't tell you how many times I batonned wood. Of course I didn't know it had a fancy name, but literally countless. Hundreds if not close to 1000 times have I "batonned" wood out there. Chopping it with an axe isn't always the best option. Sometimes chopping it with the knife, even hitting the knife with the axe is the best option for the situation. I'm not going to attempt to explain those exact situations. But when they pop up, you choose that technique. And it happens quite frequently if you aren't afraid of the technique. In fact, I use it so much that having a knife that could so it without blinking was an absolute necessity. If when trying out a new potential knife it showed any signs of not being able to hack that, then that knife was not one that could be considered for real backwoods and survival situations, plain and simple. On such trips I would always carry a tomahawk too and often a good pocket chainsaw. With those three items, you can cut or so anything you need to possibly do. As such, after trying many of the best "survival" knives out there, the classic SOG Seal is my favorite and the one I carry all the time. There are certainly others that can handle just as much and some tasks even better, but the Seal is my favorite all around that I have found. Hunting, fishing, camping, survival, scuba diving, that is the knife I take for everything, because it can do everything and not flinch. This Kabar looks like it would be fine! I'm going to throw it in there that you are not doing survival and post-apoc living,, you are doing work and stuff,, which just works very differently. bushcrafting is useful in the world,, but for example, a marine stranded behind enemy lines with nothing but a combat knife, isn't going to do any bushcrafting. They are going to hide and move constantly until they figure out how to get somewhere, and then they are going to try to get back to their team. They aren't going to maintain parks infrastructure or sit down to pre-manufactured lumber. and,, if they DO need to split a log,, they aren't going to want to find themselves in a situation where their knife is in a log and they can't get it out instantly,, for example if someone with a rifle shows up and they need to run for their life. Their knife will be lost at that time. likewise splitting logs isn't really something you might expect in the paleo age, and is instead something you might expect from someone living within an infrastructure of a stable society. I'm not suggesting it never happened in the paleo age, but I would suggest that most of the tasks an individual would need to do out on some trip won't require it. So,, I don't mean to suggest that batoning has no real value, it's got plenty of value, and it's how they split giant logs with hand tools (I mean, they use specialized blades not their survival knife, but the technique is the same),,, but I mean that for the imaginable situations that one might feel the need for a war-sword (not a bushcrafting knife, a war-sword), batoning is basically not as likely. wanting a spear is highly likely,, meanwhile wanting to make very short logs into smaller pieces is probably not. So,,, anyway,, my suggestion is basically that even though the kabar war-sword is reviewed as a poor choice for batoning, (which it is,, some people bought it, said it was no good), If you are a sword enthusiast, wanting a sword, I think it's actually a very interesting little kit. I think it is the battoning on logs that are too big (say something 8" diameter with a 9" blade) that is the problem. Battoning smaller stuff with the Ka-bar Warsword is a no problem at all. |
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Apr 7, 2021 3:46:21 GMT
I'm going to throw it in there that you are not doing survival and post-apoc living,, you are doing work and stuff,, which just works very differently. bushcrafting is useful in the world,, but for example, a marine stranded behind enemy lines with nothing but a combat knife, isn't going to do any bushcrafting. They are going to hide and move constantly until they figure out how to get somewhere, and then they are going to try to get back to their team. They aren't going to maintain parks infrastructure or sit down to pre-manufactured lumber. and,, if they DO need to split a log,, they aren't going to want to find themselves in a situation where their knife is in a log and they can't get it out instantly,, for example if someone with a rifle shows up and they need to run for their life. Their knife will be lost at that time. likewise splitting logs isn't really something you might expect in the paleo age, and is instead something you might expect from someone living within an infrastructure of a stable society. I'm not suggesting it never happened in the paleo age, but I would suggest that most of the tasks an individual would need to do out on some trip won't require it. So,, I don't mean to suggest that batoning has no real value, it's got plenty of value, and it's how they split giant logs with hand tools (I mean, they use specialized blades not their survival knife, but the technique is the same),,, but I mean that for the imaginable situations that one might feel the need for a war-sword (not a bushcrafting knife, a war-sword), batoning is basically not as likely. wanting a spear is highly likely,, meanwhile wanting to make very short logs into smaller pieces is probably not. So,,, anyway,, my suggestion is basically that even though the kabar war-sword is reviewed as a poor choice for batoning, (which it is,, some people bought it, said it was no good), If you are a sword enthusiast, wanting a sword, I think it's actually a very interesting little kit. I think it is the battoning on logs that are too big (say something 8" diameter with a 9" blade) that is the problem. Battoning smaller stuff with the Ka-bar Warsword is a no problem at all. actually,, I don't know,, I do know this, though,, ONE reviewer reviewed the warsword before it started to be made in the 1095 chrovan they use in their combat knives, and broke it batoning. Then, this reviewer re-addressed the sword when it was moved to made in USA in chrovan, and it didn't break,, but another reviewer commented that the warswords dimensions are not really ideal for bushcrafting, and recommended a different blade. as for batonning in general,,, well,,, I suppose I am a bit shy of batoning because I've watched a bunch of videos with Matthew Jensen breaking swords by first hitting the front of the blade a bunch of times, then hitting the spine maybe a small number of times. Basically,, if the blade is continuously struck on one side, it cracks mostly on that side, and the spine remains strong, but if the blade is heavily cracked in the blade, and then you hit the spin a bit,, it will be much more damaging and break the blade, while more strikes to the front might not. so,,, although I know that people are batoning a lot, (actually they break a lot of blades doing it),, if I were planning on actually needing my sword,, I probably won't be taking the risk, and have already committed to arguing for the "swiss army method" of making stick wedges, carving an entry for the wedges, and then pounding those in instead. (if it's a particularly tough log and even carving a notch won't get my wedge in,, I will seek a rock) |
|
|
|
Post by howler on Apr 7, 2021 8:25:22 GMT
I think it is the battoning on logs that are too big (say something 8" diameter with a 9" blade) that is the problem. Battoning smaller stuff with the Ka-bar Warsword is a no problem at all. actually,, I don't know,, I do know this, though,, ONE reviewer reviewed the warsword before it started to be made in the 1095 chrovan they use in their combat knives, and broke it batoning. Then, this reviewer re-addressed the sword when it was moved to made in USA in chrovan, and it didn't break,, but another reviewer commented that the warswords dimensions are not really ideal for bushcrafting, and recommended a different blade. as for batonning in general,,, well,,, I suppose I am a bit shy of batoning because I've watched a bunch of videos with Matthew Jensen breaking swords by first hitting the front of the blade a bunch of times, then hitting the spine maybe a small number of times. Basically,, if the blade is continuously struck on one side, it cracks mostly on that side, and the spine remains strong, but if the blade is heavily cracked in the blade, and then you hit the spin a bit,, it will be much more damaging and break the blade, while more strikes to the front might not. so,,, although I know that people are batoning a lot, (actually they break a lot of blades doing it),, if I were planning on actually needing my sword,, I probably won't be taking the risk, and have already committed to arguing for the "swiss army method" of making stick wedges, carving an entry for the wedges, and then pounding those in instead. (if it's a particularly tough log and even carving a notch won't get my wedge in,, I will seek a rock) Nice vid, btw, and I agree with your assessment of the Ka-Bar kit. You are right about using wedges that you make when making a base camp and splitting large logs, but if you are in a hurry you really don't have to sweat small pieces. The War sword isn't the thickest blade for the job, particularly with a full flat grind, but you can still split small stuff for kindling IF NEEDED to get to the drier center. They do make (and I possess) blades that are thicker/stronger and would take battoning till doomsday, but you pay the price by weight penalty and poorer slicing ability. No free lunch I suppose. |
|
|
|
Post by unistat76 on Apr 8, 2021 1:09:33 GMT
I've been doing bushcraft and survival activities for a bit, and batonning is just another tool. Sometimes it's the best choice, sometimes not. Making a splitwood fire is sometimes necessary when the available wood is wet. If you have an axe or hatchet, great. If all you have is your knife, you might need to baton that wood apart to get to the dry stuff. Often, survival isn't about choosing the right tools, it's about knowing how to use the tools you have with you in the most creative ways. You generally don't get to pick when you're in a survival situation, so you roll with what you got. The more you know, the less you need to carry. But of course, hike your own hike. This is a good answer, though I'd add that A LOT of the baton videos on the internet show people thumping on monstrous logs with thin blades that are barely longer than what they intend to split. A tough knife just adds versatility, and if done correctly batonning is a piece of cake. Always carry a few tiny knives in pockets and backpack for delicate tasks, but these as well can be done with a jack of all trades robust blade. Thank you and I agree with your points. My normal woods carry is an eight inch kukri or an ESEE 6hm. I back those up with an original LM Wave and an ESEE Izula neck knife. I also bring a saw and boy's axe or tomahawk, but those typically stay at camp when I'm out hiking. So when I'm likely to need an axe for a survival fire because I got lost hiking, it's likely to be at camp. |
|
