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Post by longknife on Mar 12, 2021 18:46:59 GMT
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Post by longknife on Mar 12, 2021 18:48:48 GMT
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Post by longknife on Mar 12, 2021 19:49:15 GMT
P.S. I made the frog...LK
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 12, 2021 21:48:00 GMT
My first thought is that it might be Indonesian, but that part of the world is well outside my knowledge base.
Timo and a few others will likely correct me.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 12, 2021 22:17:34 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 12, 2021 23:17:36 GMT
I really need to learn my Indonesian stuff...
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Post by longknife on Mar 13, 2021 14:38:24 GMT
Thank You for the quick replies!!! Can you please tell me what traits make this an Indonesian sword and particularly how can it be linked to Java? I have looked extensively for another sword with that cut out in the ricasso, what is its purpose? Also looking for a european sword that used that type of guard. BTW, I added the musket ball on the pommel as there was no nut when I acquired it. Can you nail down a particular time frame? Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to learn and be able to discuss this sword with out looking like a complete idiot!!!,,,Thanks, LK
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 13, 2021 15:47:38 GMT
Timo can probably break down the specifics a lot better than I could, but having been slowly branching out into more ethnographic weapons, myself, (coming from a katana-dominant history) all I can say is it just looks Indonesian. Reminds me of the stuff I've seen from there. Don't know why, lol.
I am the most helpful.
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Post by mrbadexample on Mar 13, 2021 16:15:05 GMT
Like Random said, the sword has a constellation of features that all say Indonesian. Also like Random said, Timo will do a much better job than I could of breaking them down clearly.
It’s a beautiful sword. I love the swords from that region with this shape and a knuckle bow. There is a cosmopolitan elegance about them that really appeals to me. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 14, 2021 22:06:20 GMT
The blade is Indonesian in style, down to the pattern-welding. The bent-in knucklebow is common on these Western-hilted Indonesian swords. As for Java vs the rest of Indonesia, IMO the blade looks Javanese. But this is tentative, not definitive. The cut-out at the base of the blade is unusual. I wonder if it's a later addition, if the blade served in more traditional mounts, as a wide-based blade: therionarms.com/sold/com112.htmlbefore having that cut-out added when mounted with that European guard. Here is an interesting blade with a similar cut-out: www.haigsofrochester.com/product-page/indonesian-javanese-madurese-kris-dagger-swordwhich is currently in a traditional hilt, but the seller suggests might have been mounted with a European hilt because the end of the tang is threaded.
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Post by longknife on Mar 15, 2021 15:20:49 GMT
TIMO, thank you very much for your expertise! And, the million dollar question!!! What is it worth? I am not lookin to sell but want to leave a much info as I can to my heirs,,, when that time comes! Thanks, LK
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 16, 2021 20:51:58 GMT
It's a good question, but I don't have a good answer - I don't see these Euro-hilted swords sell very often. A regular pedang with a blade like this and an Indonesian-style hilt should sell for over US$100 (but might not), and I'd be surprised if it went for over $300. Dealers often list them at about $200-$500. More if they have fancy silverwork, or something special. Less if they're in very poor condition.
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Post by pellius on Mar 16, 2021 23:15:53 GMT
That is a very interesting sword. I like it a lot!
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Post by longknife on Mar 17, 2021 3:52:31 GMT
Thanks for all the information!,,,
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Post by longknife on Mar 18, 2021 13:41:49 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 18, 2021 14:44:16 GMT
Good find. Can't say whether the same maker as yours, though.
Usually when I see the phrase "parang nabur" I think of a very different sword, but perhaps the phrase is more generic than I thought. I'm thinking of what's also referred to, less commonly in my limited experience, as "beledah belebang" and I have no idea what the linguistic history might be on either.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 18, 2021 23:45:19 GMT
Well, it says "in the style of the parang nabur", i.e., with a Euro-style hilt, which is fair enough. (Ignoring that the parang nabur is defined by the blade [1], and some have Asian-style hilts rather than Euro-style hilts.)
I see that the description gives Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo) as the origin. Not where I'd expect it to be originally from.
[1] Zonneveld lists the niabor AKA parang njabur (and other spellings) as a different sword from the parang nabur. Also, a parang nabur can have the same kind of blade as the jimpul AKA parang jimpul, as well as the same kind of blade as the niabor. The niabor and jimpul are basically mandau-hilted versions of the parang nabur, except also more likely to have a fancy projection near the base of the blade (which some parang nabur have, but only a few).
Under both BELADAH and BELABANG, Zonneveld just has "See parang nabur".
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Post by longknife on Mar 18, 2021 23:57:47 GMT
Ohhhhh man,,,,, now my head hurts!!!!
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 19, 2021 0:13:39 GMT
Well, it says "in the style of the parang nabur", i.e., with a Euro-style hilt, which is fair enough. (Ignoring that the parang nabur is defined by the blade [1], and some have Asian-style hilts rather than Euro-style hilts.) I see that the description gives Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo) as the origin. Not where I'd expect it to be originally from. [1] Zonneveld lists the niabor AKA parang njabur (and other spellings) as a different sword from the parang nabur. Also, a parang nabur can have the same kind of blade as the jimpul AKA parang jimpul, as well as the same kind of blade as the niabor. The niabor and jimpul are basically mandau-hilted versions of the parang nabur, except also more likely to have a fancy projection near the base of the blade (which some parang nabur have, but only a few). Under both BELADAH and BELABANG, Zonneveld just has "See parang nabur". Hmm, interesting. This is why I'm bad at Indonesian stuff.
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