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Post by tsmspace on Mar 12, 2021 5:45:49 GMT
Well,, I have a bit of a spending problem today and yesterday, , but I suppose it will be alright because I should be stimulated here in the next week or so by the sound of it. Anyway, I have to be honest, I don't think sub 200$ for the sword, shipping, and sharpening service is THAT much to worry about,, I shouldn't tuck and hide over admitting that expense. It's the 500$ I spent the day before that makes it a bit more irresponsible. ,,, but ,, If the 1860 lcs works out and is comparable to my 1840 nco sword and 1860 naval cutlass, I will certainly justify the expense, I have been really craving to expand my saber experience. I have basically the Combat Commander saber I got on discount day. So actually I have the Universal Swords 1845 wilkinson lcs,, but its not very good. It is all bent up, the handle twisted like the wood is all smashed inside, and honestly the thing is ready to be tossed. Of course I will keep it so that if I need to blunt a sword for some kind of costume piece, it's ready to go, , and there's always the chance I will go can crazy again, because it does that just fine, but for the most part if it won't do mt. dew bottles with ease it's not going to be as useful as a cutter. also it's all bent up and twisted. That sword is one of the en9 versions. Another commenter (pgandy) suggested I might be happier with a Universal Swords 1065 steel model, I'm a little bit hesitant, and as my windlass is going strong, I decided I would just go with that one for now. They're cheap enough I can try that out later on. I unfortunately paid for sharpening,,, which I would rather do myself, but I thought it would be better just to order the sharpening service, because perhaps it will make it more likely that it has a good temper, , I am just dreaming it up but I for some reason am worried that if I order an unsharpened version they might target me as a person who won't ever sharpen it and send one that they can't send sharpened,, , I've seen a few windlass swords with a bad temper on the edge, resulting in a complete loss in cutting ability. However, when I sharpened the 1840, I used a file, and took down the entire bevel, so there is no secondary bevel,, I am quite sure the sharpening service will be a fat secondary bevel. My naval cutlass is thusly sharpened, it cuts fine, but just the same it is if nothing else more beautiful to have a proper single bevel edge. But in other news, I happen to be inclined to think it will be more likely to cut if it gets a bit dull when the bevel is a bit steeper. Actually I'm super stoked about it,,, the saber has a nice forward stance out of the handle, just like the 1845 wilkinson, and although it doesn't have a spear point, it does still have the point pretty close to the straight line that comes out of the handle. This is not critical so that I can stab with it, because I will be cutting,, but it IS critical because I am trying to gain some cutting skills with cut-compromised blades. So,, I want to learn how to better cut with everything that ISN'T a cutting shape. The forward stance of the saber does appear to be quite a sacrifice in cutting power,, i do think my universal swords saber would be cutting mt. dew bottles if it were a cut-oriented saber, but it's not. (actually I can cut them way down in the middle of the blade, but I'm working the tip, and it doesn't work). Windlass steel just seems to be better suited for plastic bottle cutting. I can't say how it stands up as a battle-sword, but I figure,, I'm not going to use it that way, as long as it works for bottles, I should be good. I am also concerned about the wood in the handle,, I haven't particularly stressed my cutlass, but the nco sword is an all brass handle, so it's not an issue,,, however i've had a few swords now where I'm quite sure they would not have used such a soft wood in the grip if they were making a real sword back in the day. I've had multiple swords where one particularly bad hit and the wood must crush causing the handle to be able to twist. I think a good wood would not crush like that, and since all of the other parts of the sword are basically foolproof, the wood is a weakness. I did consider the cold steel cavalry saber, but I just think it will be a lot heavier. I want something nice and dainty for now. I'm little. I was just having to explain my very small hands earlier today. www.museumreplicas.com/1860-light-cavalry-union-saber
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 12, 2021 8:05:18 GMT
I had one. I thrashed it on some blackberry vines once and the peen loosened enough for the handle to begin twisting slightly in use. Not dangerous but annoying. Otherwise it handled okay but not super inspiring. With a good edge, it'll cut bottles fine. I'd go with an M1902 now for a bottle-cutting saber or a 1796 if you want more cutting power.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 12, 2021 17:51:01 GMT
I had one. I thrashed it on some blackberry vines once and the peen loosened enough for the handle to begin twisting slightly in use. Not dangerous but annoying. Otherwise it handled okay but not super inspiring. With a good edge, it'll cut bottles fine. I'd go with an M1902 now for a bottle-cutting saber or a 1796 if you want more cutting power. I specifically am avoiding the cutting power sabers for now,, I'm interested in using sabers that are basically at maximum cut compromise,,, so they sacrifice cutting as much as they can justify. It should be more challenging, as to be honest if the sword is sharp, bottles don't offer much resistance. But, I have noticed that some shapes require more specific form to really cut nicely. A big powerful saber will not be that one,,, it will be like , really powerful no matter what. not that I am taking up fencing, but I also do like to practice some guards and strikes now and then, and I want to have a nice saber for that sort of thing. I know windlass is not hailed as the industry standard of good sabers, but honestly I think it will be fine. which product would you but for an m1902??
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 12, 2021 19:22:47 GMT
I had done a search for the Windlass M1860 LC and the places I checked were all out of stock so you surprised me. The link you provided also lists them as OOS. I don’t have that one but the Officer’s Model, not the same so I can’t compare. However I see no repro cavalry sabre that I’d rather have. Unfortunately it didn’t come that way. ACC had a sale and the $90 price tag caused me to pull the trigger. It was terrible but over time working a little here and a little there it’s proving itself a good sabre. I’ve reshaped the grip to fit my hand, sharpened the true and false edges, and added some distal taper, and brought the PoB back ½”. The tip thickness in now 2.8mm from a 3.5, I plan to take it down to 2.6 someday. I’m not a fan of cavalry sabres but this one handles much better now and I find myself liking it. It holds an edge well, not to mention it’s a strong cutter. A fencing sabre it isn’t. The M1902 is much better at fencing while Windlass’ M1860 OM is more robust and a better cutter at the cost of less agility, slower, and more fatiguing. If you don’t like MRL’s sharpening you can always take a file to it and consider what they removed a step towards easing your work. I’d like to know how it works out for you.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 13, 2021 5:19:19 GMT
I had done a search for the Windlass M1860 LC and the places I checked were all out of stock so you surprised me. The link you provided also lists them as OOS. I don’t have that one but the Officer’s Model, not the same so I can’t compare. However I see no repro cavalry sabre that I’d rather have. Unfortunately it didn’t come that way. ACC had a sale and the $90 price tag caused me to pull the trigger. It was terrible but over time working a little here and a little there it’s proving itself a good sabre. I’ve reshaped the grip to fit my hand, sharpened the true and false edges, and added some distal taper, and brought the PoB back ½”. The tip thickness in now 2.8mm from a 3.5, I plan to take it down to 2.6 someday. I’m not a fan of cavalry sabres but this one handles much better now and I find myself liking it. It holds an edge well, not to mention it’s a strong cutter. A fencing sabre it isn’t. The M1902 is much better at fencing while Windlass’ M1860 OM is more robust and a better cutter at the cost of less agility, slower, and more fatiguing. If you don’t like MRL’s sharpening you can always take a file to it and consider what they removed a step towards easing your work. I’d like to know how it works out for you. hmm.. I wonder if I will get one or if they will say no got here's your refund. I didn't notice an out of stock notice. edit:; ah, now I see,, well I just assumed it would be the 4 weeks,, but I wonder,, maybe it will be a really long time. I didn't notice that other items showed in stock instead. I just thought ALL of their items took so long to ship. I will email them and ask about it.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 13, 2021 5:36:59 GMT
which product would you but for an m1902?? There's a Deepeeka and a Universal. I don't have either but I'd go for the Universal. The CS army officer saber would be another good choice if you can find one, but it's discontinued.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 13, 2021 5:42:14 GMT
so, casually looking at museum replicas now that I know the swords in stock have a different color button,,, It does appear that the stock for museum replicas is similar to koa,,, are these guys just listing swords that are in the same warehouse?? It wouldn't shock me, as that's how a bunch of amazon stuff works, but it would ultimately mean that there's no need to choose one or the other,,, unless the sharpening is done by different people, in which case you could choose who does your sharpening. The price won't change for me,, because although koa is cheaper, the shipping to hawaii is the equalizer.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 13, 2021 5:44:06 GMT
KoA is its own warehouse. Not surprising if certain models dry up in both places as supply runs out before more are shipped in from India.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 13, 2021 13:12:47 GMT
Ya, MRL and KoA are two different companies. ACC and MRL may share the same warehouse as they are sisters but I’ve seen ‘warehouse finds’ listed by each while not by the other. Their 4 week wait is a standard post and I’ve seen for months while waiting. Do not count on a 4 week wait, it may or may not hold true. I just checked KoA’s and MRL’s inventory and both are just about completely sold out of Windlass. The virus must have hit Windlass very hard. KoA still some M1840 NCOs but the price has jumped about $15. Sorry to see that, at $116 or so it was a steal. Although I got the Ames version from ACC with a leather sheath for about $150 plus a forgotten discount. I was speaking of Universal’s M1902.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 13, 2021 17:03:19 GMT
Ya, MRL and KoA are two different companies. ACC and MRL may share the same warehouse as they are sisters but I’ve seen ‘warehouse finds’ listed by each while not by the other. Their 4 week wait is a standard post and I’ve seen for months while waiting. Do not count on a 4 week wait, it may or may not hold true. I just checked KoA’s and MRL’s inventory and both are just about completely sold out of Windlass. The virus must have hit Windlass very hard. KoA still some M1840 NCOs but the price has jumped about $15. Sorry to see that, at $116 or so it was a steal. Although I got the Ames version from ACC with a leather sheath for about $150 plus a forgotten discount. I was speaking of Universal’s M1902. the universal m1902 is in stock, so i may change my order if they respond with a severely long wait time. it is more , though, and also my other universal sword didn't work out, or I wouldn't be shopping, because the shape and features of the 1845 wilkinson are perfectly suitable. (I wanted a spear point, also, so actually better). but the windlass 1840 IS working out, and the windlass 1860 naval cutlass is also adequate, and each of them were around the same price for me to purchase, (the cutlass I bought in this forum), so I was hopeful that the same make would be a win for a lightweight, thrust-angled saber. Honestly, though, the 1840 might be the right sword for the bottle cuts, because it is straight. My other universal swords WAS cutting in one place on the blade, but not in other places, so I think that the angle of the blade is a factor because the bevel geometry is the same as the nco sword. But, a bad cut causes it to bend a lot, and not just at the point of impact, the way that the swords I've had all bend on a bad cut is from the entire sword distorting according to the vibration, so it bends at the tang, close the the point of balance, and near the center of percussion, resulting in all sorts of ruin. also, the wood used in the handle couldnt' take the abuse, so the handle has actually rotated as if smashed internally, which makes edge alignment quite difficult. I know the steel is different, but still, if I could repeat my experience of success i would try, whereas for me the universal is a gamble, although they've clearly upgraded I just don't know what to expect. (well, also , I am trying to be frugal,, I would just buy a 300$ thing under other circumstances, if it could possibly be my whole thing, but since I have been, I basically can't do that as much. ,,, I have a ton of swords by now).
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 13, 2021 17:05:49 GMT
Ya, MRL and KoA are two different companies. ACC and MRL may share the same warehouse as they are sisters but I’ve seen ‘warehouse finds’ listed by each while not by the other. Their 4 week wait is a standard post and I’ve seen for months while waiting. Do not count on a 4 week wait, it may or may not hold true. I just checked KoA’s and MRL’s inventory and both are just about completely sold out of Windlass. The virus must have hit Windlass very hard. KoA still some M1840 NCOs but the price has jumped about $15. Sorry to see that, at $116 or so it was a steal. Although I got the Ames version from ACC with a leather sheath for about $150 plus a forgotten discount. I was speaking of Universal’s M1902. another thing about windlass,,,, well I don't know I'm sure the virus is affecting india, after all they are huge drivers in WHO and also they have a high population density and are always active in world politics for peaceful events, which means they would have been enacting a lot of safety regulations internally,, but on another thread I saw that Balaur arms might be produced by Windlass for the next round of designs, so the company must be at work somehow.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 13, 2021 18:34:44 GMT
I cannot guarantee the M1902 nor you liking it. I found their 1065 steel to be harder than their EN9. The one sword, a P1796, that I used would not hold an edge well but did not fall apart with me as your P1845 sabre. My other EN9 sabre, a Princess of Wales, remains unsharpened as I assumed it to be a waste of time so enjoy looking at it and dry handling as is. I found the M1902 to hold an edge better than the P1796 and a delight to handle, very much like the M1840. I don’t return that sabre without covering the sharpened edges with masking tape first as the scabbard is steel with a steel throat. As for thrusting it out penetrated my M1860 by going through 4 rugs, barely but significantly enough to hole a jug. The M1860 I went through 3 plies. I have since sharpened the false edge on the M1860 making the point better but have not tested it. The M1902 is not a super cutter but out cuts my M1840 NCO.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 14, 2021 8:45:56 GMT
I cannot guarantee the M1902 nor you liking it. I found their 1065 steel to be harder than their EN9. The one sword, a P1796, that I used would not hold an edge well but did not fall apart with me as your P1845 sabre. My other EN9 sabre, a Princess of Wales, remains unsharpened as I assumed it to be a waste of time so enjoy looking at it and dry handling as is. I found the M1902 to hold an edge better than the P1796 and a delight to handle, very much like the M1840. I don’t return that sabre without covering the sharpened edges with masking tape first as the scabbard is steel with a steel throat. As for thrusting it out penetrated my M1860 by going through 4 rugs, barely but significantly enough to hole a jug. The M1860 I went through 3 plies. I have since sharpened the false edge on the M1860 making the point better but have not tested it. The M1902 is not a super cutter but out cuts my M1840 NCO. I could get this one,,, I wonder what you think about that. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS88SN&name=Cold+Steel+%2D+Italian+Dueling+SaberI would definitely have to sharpen it, but the blade might take the abuse and perform the cuts.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 14, 2021 12:40:29 GMT
Again I get the feeling that you plan to purchase a sword on my recommendation and again I say I cannot guarantee you liking it. I will give my thoughts FWIW. CS products are of better quality than both Windlass and Universal and are noted for their durability. With that CS you take another $100 jump in price. Not having experience with that model I can only guess but I would think they handle very well and should be robust. I don’t think they would handle like a typical sabre, that is they are easier to manoeuvre, fast, and not the best at cutting due to their ¾” wide blade and light weight. The PoB would make it feel better than most sabres especially repros but not conducive to better cutting. Remember these are designed primarily for duelling. With that curvature and asymmetrical point probably wanting in the thrusting department but if that is a problem you can always alter to a symmetrical tip to better it. In short I believe that duelling sabre will take all of the features of the M1902, good and bad, and exaggerate them. But again please don’t buy or disregard solely on my say so, heck I have problems deciding on a correct model for myself and by no means feel that I’m in a position to tell someone else what to buy, there just too many variables that come into play.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 14, 2021 13:40:30 GMT
If your intended cutting target is bottles and not tatami, the dueling saber is probably an excellent choice.
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Post by tsmspace on Mar 14, 2021 17:30:35 GMT
I have a windlass hutton dueling saber,, which is marketed as a blunt sparring sword.
I wonder if it will still be the same steel as other windlass products, and I might sharpen it?? I emailed windlass, and they said the sword is not for sharpening, but if the steel would hold an edge, I would do it. If not, well, I poked some cardboard with the round tip, and yup, it's pretty safe. If it's not going to make a good sword, I don't want to ruin the sparring toy.
I wonder if anyone knows about that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 0:49:44 GMT
I have a windlass hutton dueling saber,, which is marketed as a blunt sparring sword. I wonder if it will still be the same steel as other windlass products, and I might sharpen it?? I emailed windlass, and they said the sword is not for sharpening, but if the steel would hold an edge, I would do it. If not, well, I poked some cardboard with the round tip, and yup, it's pretty safe. If it's not going to make a good sword, I don't want to ruin the sparring toy. I wonder if anyone knows about that. The Hutton is made by Hanwei casiberia.com/product/hutton-sabre/sh2201
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 15, 2021 4:37:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 5:26:21 GMT
I have a windlass hutton dueling saber,, which is marketed as a blunt sparring sword. I wonder if it will still be the same steel as other windlass products, and I might sharpen it?? I emailed windlass, and they said the sword is not for sharpening, but if the steel would hold an edge, I would do it. If not, well, I poked some cardboard with the round tip, and yup, it's pretty safe. If it's not going to make a good sword, I don't want to ruin the sparring toy. I wonder if anyone knows about that. The Hutton is made by Hanwei casiberia.com/product/hutton-sabre/sh2201Of course, I could be wrong.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Mar 15, 2021 6:11:25 GMT
Of course, I could be wrong. You're not wrong, MRL are selling hanwei swords. A quick look saw a few hanwei tinker swords, and the Rhinelander.
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