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Post by megasalexandrosdream on Mar 11, 2021 0:32:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 1:25:34 GMT
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Post by megasalexandrosdream on Mar 11, 2021 19:25:10 GMT
Thank you! I was hoping it was real.. I likely own a few pieces that were "looted" and belong elsewhere.. But I appreciate and honor them, the artifacts, and the people they came from, as much as I can.. The Sword is now in a case at home, in a stand. So, if it was looted, was it real? You're leaning on 'yes' I assume, as am I... I originally bought the sword due to my personal research regarding Mithraism and Alexander's campaign in Luristan against the 'Cossaei'..
I'm just going to lean on it being real, the person I got it from seems to be reputable.
By the by, implying "looted", you mean stolen, correct?
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 12, 2021 3:05:39 GMT
Thank you! I was hoping it was real.. I likely own a few pieces that were "looted" and belong elsewhere.. But I appreciate and honor them, the artifacts, and the people they came from, as much as I can.. The Sword is now in a case at home, in a stand. So, if it was looted, was it real? You're leaning on 'yes' I assume, as am I... I originally bought the sword due to my personal research regarding Mithraism and Alexander's campaign in Luristan against the 'Cossaei'.. I'm just going to lean on it being real, the person I got it from seems to be reputable. By the by, implying "looted", you mean stolen, correct? Looted in this context means illegally digging up archaeological sites. Based on more thorough rooting in some of the same references that @edelweiss linked, I suspect that your dagger is fake.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 12, 2021 4:34:34 GMT
My first impression is "fake". It isn't one of the common styles of Luristan bronze swords, and faces are much more common on Luristan iron swords.
The first step is to find out what alloy it's made from. The modern non-destructive approach: X-ray fluorescence (XRF). These days, scrapyards, foundries, jewellers, and various other people with an interest in seeing what metals are made from often have them.
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Post by megasalexandrosdream on Mar 12, 2021 21:34:50 GMT
Well according to the seller as well as a few sources I've spoke to that actually live in Luristan, it's real and was from the Kalmakara cave. I'll just choose to believe it's real, since no one can find a definitive answer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 22:04:38 GMT
If you have the facts, why search more?
By the way, the part in quotes in my first reply is from the linked thread.
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Post by megasalexandrosdream on Mar 12, 2021 22:22:31 GMT
Suppose I was just curious of the opinion of others. Folly on my part!
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 12, 2021 22:43:12 GMT
Timo gave you the best advice you'll get.
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Post by megasalexandrosdream on Mar 12, 2021 23:08:16 GMT
According to someone from the bakhtiari tribe I'm keeping in contact with, this is actually the style that was pertinent in the particular cave I mentioned.. As for what Timo said, I may look into checking what it's made of or x-raying it but it feels like solid bronze..and the paper says it's bronze.. I dunno. Will have to look into it. www.ebay.com/usr/ddavis44612013?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 Is this not a credible source?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 23:20:17 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 13, 2021 2:36:47 GMT
At first glance, I see an Ordos-style knife misidentified as Luristan, so at least the identifications are not all reliable. This piece is also identical to swarms of fake Ordos knives out there (I can't tell if it comes from the same mold as my replica Ordos horsehead knife, since there is piece-to-piece variation with removing the casting flash and from casting flaws). The identified-as-Chinese pieces are also commonly-faked pieces.
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 13, 2021 4:45:46 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 13, 2021 4:58:18 GMT
At first glance, I see an Ordos-style knife misidentified as Luristan, so at least the identifications are not all reliable. This piece is also identical to swarms of fake Ordos knives out there (I can't tell if it comes from the same mold as my replica Ordos horsehead knife, since there is piece-to-piece variation with removing the casting flash and from casting flaws). The identified-as-Chinese pieces are also commonly-faked pieces. I see a wide selection of offerings of frequently faked or reproduced items, and I'm not going to trust the scholarship of anyone who repeatedly spells "quartz" as "quarts".
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 13, 2021 13:36:10 GMT
Not to put ddavis44612013 down, I don’t know the fellow nor have had any dealings with him. But I’ve learned that ebay is not the place to find credible sources, not that they don’t exist. Instead of believing what is convenient for you take some initiative and have it checked such as with X-ray to find if the composition of what you have existed at that time would be a start.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 13, 2021 15:43:17 GMT
Well according to the seller as well as a few sources I've spoke to that actually live in Luristan, it's real and was from the Kalmakara cave. I'll just choose to believe it's real, since no one can find a definitive answer. Hey I have an island to sell you. Obviously the seller is going to say it's real.
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Post by bruntson on Mar 13, 2021 16:32:33 GMT
Winkipedea search of Lurestan Province (also written Luristan) includes, "Small Luristan bronze artworks, usually dated about 1000 to 650 BC, reached the outside world from the late 1920s and are found in museums all over the world, where they are valued for their vigorous style, with many representations of animals."
If these bronze works were found in museums, you can be sure they were found in private collections too.
I doubt there were few if any laws concerning digging up and selling antiqutes in the late 1920's. What we consider looting today, was consider legal bussiness back then.
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Post by bruntson on Mar 13, 2021 16:53:17 GMT
You have a certificate of authenticity issued by the Spanish Shipwreck Treasure Company. It they are a true company, they will have records of how they authenticated this bronze knife. It's very suspicious that they didn't put their address or a way to contact them on the certificate, almost like they don't want to be found. A google search does not turn them up. I believe this certifiate was printed with the sole purpose to encourage you to by this item, no credible research was done. The certificate is a fake. Knowing that, I would not trust the sellers word that the knife is authentic.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 14, 2021 21:53:55 GMT
I see a wide selection of offerings of frequently faked or reproduced items, It wouldn't surprise me. The "bronze" fakes I see most regularly are Chinese, so I find it easy to spot things that look like the common Chinese fakes. I don't know the non-Chinese fake bronzes anywhere near as well.
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Post by jaimeahrr on Mar 15, 2021 0:32:03 GMT
This is comically sad.
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