|
Post by dwallen on Feb 4, 2021 17:19:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Feb 4, 2021 17:40:43 GMT
My first impression is that it is real but the blade seems real worn with weak engraving for a presentation sword. Yours or is it for sale? Col. Joseph Conrad is for real....and he served in the Third Missouri Infantry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Conrad_(general)
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 4, 2021 17:47:19 GMT
Recent purchase.. I am concerned about the quality of the engraved presentation an
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Feb 4, 2021 17:49:07 GMT
Recent purchase.. I am concerned about the quality of the engraved presentation an Looks like it was handled a lot if it is real. You didnt have these concerns before you bought it?
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 4, 2021 17:49:09 GMT
...and the lack of an E in PLURBIS UNUM on blade...
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 4, 2021 17:52:04 GMT
I missed the missing "E"... learning the hard way...
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Feb 4, 2021 17:54:25 GMT
If you recently paid a lot for the sword, enough to make it worth the effort to fake it, and and can get your $$$ back if it is a fake, hire a true expert. If you got a sizzling hot deal, that alone makes it suspect too. There seems to be just too much wear on parts of the sword/scabbard that should not have wear. A lot of the brass cast parts of hilt/scabbard are just not crisp as well. You are right to question this. www.americanswords.com/fakes.htmlwww.americanswords.com/collector-tips.htmlGet a real expert to determine it to be a reproduction/fake and get your $ back from the seller or hopefully thru PayPal or your credit card.
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Feb 4, 2021 18:05:19 GMT
Does anyone make these currently or in the past as a reproduction? I've not seen an M1850 presentation sword ever reproduced. I suspect it to be original...out of curiosity, what did you pay for it if you don't mind sharing? Where did you find it? I'm jealous...stunning sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 18:40:03 GMT
Welcome aboard The site linked was created by Simon Rycroft. In part the top page relates his disgust with auction listings in one of several discussions on SFI. www.swordforum.com/vb4/showthread.php?115299-Who-can-spot-the-House-of-Swords-sword-on-e-bayThe blade decorations are etched. This blade has French poincons/marks at the base of the blade and the etching on the spine is for Klingenthal&Coulaux. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. If the blade had been rusted and then badly "scraped", that could account for a lot of what we see here. Maybe ping Simon and offer a contribution. www.klingenthal.fr/marquages_coulaux.htmSchulyer, Hartley & Graham sourced entire swords (Ames, for instance) and imported both German&French made blades along with some from Collins, of CT (later machete fame). I'll look in their old catalog to see if there is a scabbard match. Without a personal presentation (not the spine), it may have been a generic commemorative for the likes of the GAR but the poincons kind of point to the '60s (blade manufacture). The hilt is fairly representative. The missing E may have been scrubbed off the top of the banner. It looks to me like someone got carried away using an acid for rust removal or left it in an electrolysis "tank" for too long. Pictures only tell us so much. GC
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Feb 4, 2021 19:07:56 GMT
Interesting Glen...I'd never heard of House of Swords!
|
|
|
Post by pellius on Feb 4, 2021 19:15:31 GMT
edelweiss - outstanding info, as always. Thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 19:37:29 GMT
The more I look at it, the more I'd question it.
Simon would probably love the photos.
Cheers GC
To add, the distress on the hilt and grip shows a forced "patina" that shouldn't occur without acid applications to pock the parts so much. SH&G would have added an etch to the blade. A House of Swords production? I don't know. Nap time.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Feb 4, 2021 20:16:43 GMT
The more I look at it, the more I'd question it. Simon would probably love the photos. Cheers GC To add, the distress on the hilt and grip shows a forced "patina" that shouldn't occur without acid applications to pock the parts so much. SH&G would have added an etch to the blade. A House of Swords production? I don't know. Nap time. AS I noted earlier, the brass bits lack crispness....and after researching House of Swords and looking at examples produced by them, I tend to agree this is most likely a HoS replica. azswords.com/Fake%20House%20of%20Swords.htm
|
|
|
Post by Spathologist on Feb 4, 2021 20:48:40 GMT
...and the lack of an E in PLURBIS UNUM on blade... There's an E there, it's just located over the fuller.
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 4, 2021 22:31:26 GMT
Thanks to all for your comments. I did reach out to Simon as suggested. I will share any information I receive. The sword is in transit to me. I will post new pictures if I think the ones posted were misleading or over lighted, etc...
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Feb 5, 2021 14:58:38 GMT
Thanks to all for your comments. I did reach out to Simon as suggested. I will share any information I receive. The sword is in transit to me. I will post new pictures if I think the ones posted were misleading or over lighted, etc... Very curious to see how this turns out and hoping you don't get screwed with this one. I collect the M1860 light cavalry sabers made by Mansfield and Lamb. Slowly working on getting all years and all inspectors. I have a couple staff and field officers swords and a foot officers sword. I chose Mansfield and Lamb because; - They made a high quality saber - They held a union contract for the entirety of the war - Their swords are well and clearly stamped - I have never heard of one being faked like the Ames product - I liked the story; plowshares into swords. (Henry Mansfield and Estus Lamb owned a scythe factory in Forestdale, RI) I have stayed away from the presentation blades primarily because of both cost and the exact thing you are dealing with here...authentication. Do you have a collection of presentation swords you might share photos of?
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 5, 2021 16:15:59 GMT
I have one other presentation sword that has an interesting history, its the first one listed here, John Mulford, etc. : civilwarantique.com/12-12/I also have an Emerson & Silver light cavalry. My main collecting interests are antique photography, especially daguerreotypes and historical autographs.
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Feb 5, 2021 17:03:50 GMT
Your other 1850 presentation sword is beautiful...although I stray sometimes, Ames swords are my main collecting interest.
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 5, 2021 18:58:03 GMT
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by dwallen on Feb 5, 2021 19:04:37 GMT
Thanks to Simon Rycroft verdict is House of Swords... I am thankful for buyer protection that allows for return. Thanks again to all.
|
|