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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 21:58:09 GMT
I remember seeing a video of Battojutsu before when studying Kenjutsu online. At first I kinda wrote it off as LARP as it was inspired by the Kenshin anime series, but some aspects of it seem like it could be supplementary to something like iaido. I kind of enjoy the aesthetic, even if its a bit larpy to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 0:39:15 GMT
Not in my wheelhouse at all but I just wanted to say that you always come with some interesting material and obscure subjects deserving of attention. A man after my own heart lol. Thanks man, you too haha. You always have great ways to keep the forum interesting. I miss your monster threads. Got here too late for them And hey, a man as edgy as me likely relates to some heart eating monster. 😈 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 1:22:51 GMT
Thanks man, you too haha. You always have great ways to keep the forum interesting. I miss your monster threads. Got here too late for them And hey, a man as edgy as me likely relates to some heart eating monster. 😈 Naw you aren't too late for it. I can always bring it back. Bring it back from the grave! I have it most of that stuff saved in a microsoft word file and other folders. I have been doing that with most of my stuff on here. Maybe I'll bring it back around when Halloween nears! Oh semprini yea man, that sounds perfect. I'm not sure how available I'll be on that day, but if I'm more available than I think I'll be, I'll be right here man Sometimes I consider pretending to be a woman to see the people on this forum flood my topics that only need one answer and watch them flock as they hope their answer is the one chosen |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 21, 2020 4:02:50 GMT
I mean, it is basically larp, like the lightsaber stuff. For martial arts use how important is techniques focused around drawing the sword, in the modern era at least? It didn't catch on in Europe that much, and personally I would rather invest the time spent learning this "new style" in a historical manual we know has stock as far as working in a fight goes.
What little I watched from the videos seems more for show than for use.
Just to offer a view less than positive. I personally really like practicing and finding new ways to practice sword based martial arts. I just place 0 stock in stuff based around TV or film. It will always have a stronger basis in showmanship than utility.
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Post by zabazagobo on Sept 21, 2020 6:50:27 GMT
Jordan Williams you're on point. I recall mention that the ones who started up this particular contemporary dojo had backgrounds in choreography and stuntwork, hence the emphasis on the dramatic draw cuts. What they do is fun and a requires stamina and practice, but simultaneously it seems more like sport rather than fencing. Not dissing on it, it is still very fun to watch and observe the mechanics at play.
I've never been to big into the iaido scene for two main reasons. One, how many methods do you need to draw your sword? Draw the thing and if the initial attack fails its better to practice parries, blocks and counters than more drawing methods. Two...I ****ING HATE SEIZA. My knees do NOT like it one bit, so I never got into iaido very much as a LOT of kata start seated. Which is more for the contemporary 'zen' aspect of budo rather than the traditional 'application' aspect of budo, seeing as how if you're seated in seiza...you probably have a knife (tanto) or long dagger (wakizashi) rather than a full blown sword.
Well, I guess this opened my iaido can o' worms.  |
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 21, 2020 10:09:48 GMT
I agree with zab and jordan. It's a sport/ choreography discipline, not so good for actual fighting.
It does look like fun, and if it gets people interested in exercise and doing things instead of watching tv, then I'm all for it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 21:05:00 GMT
Good to see I'm not alone on this haha. I agree that if it gets people exercising then great.
I suppose it could be like iaido in the sense you are unlikely to ever use or spar with it, but the aesthetic is its strongest point
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 24, 2020 1:28:59 GMT
I remember seeing a video of Battojutsu before when studying Kenjutsu online. At first I kinda wrote it off as LARP as it was inspired by the Kenshin anime series, but some aspects of it seem like it could be supplementary to something like iaido. I kind of enjoy the aesthetic, even if its a bit larpy to me. Discuss: Jordan Williams you're on point. I recall mention that the ones who started up this particular contemporary dojo had backgrounds in choreography and stuntwork, hence the emphasis on the dramatic draw cuts. What they do is fun and a requires stamina and practice, but simultaneously it seems more like sport rather than fencing. Not dissing on it, it is still very fun to watch and observe the mechanics at play.
I've never been to big into the iaido scene for two main reasons. One, how many methods do you need to draw your sword? Draw the thing and if the initial attack fails its better to practice parries, blocks and counters than more drawing methods. Two...I ****ING HATE SEIZA. My knees do NOT like it one bit, so I never got into iaido very much as a LOT of kata start seated. Which is more for the contemporary 'zen' aspect of budo rather than the traditional 'application' aspect of budo, seeing as how if you're seated in seiza...you probably have a knife (tanto) or long dagger (wakizashi) rather than a full blown sword.
Well, I guess this opened my iaido can o' worms. I agree with zab and jordan. It's a sport/ choreography discipline, not so good for actual fighting. It does look like fun, and if it gets people interested in exercise and doing things instead of watching tv, then I'm all for it. "Battojutsu" is simply the oldest term for what we now know as "iaido" ("iaido"was adopted for postwar "touchy-feely" Zenny-poo marketing reasons to stress the non-violent philosophical aspects over actually slicing an opponent to shreds, distancing JSA from the IJA  ). It was originally taught in conjunction with other martial arts as part of a samurai's integrated combat skills. Taught and done traditionally, it's just a synonym for iaido, with a slight difference in attitude implied by "jutsu".
IMHO, what's shown in those videos is pure bullshido. All I had to see of the second one was the kid's sloppy instinctive nukitsuke to know it was crap, though I figured that from the ryu name. They're well known as being a gendai ryu masquerading as a koryu, with a serious reek of "McDojo".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 2:13:16 GMT
I remember seeing a video of Battojutsu before when studying Kenjutsu online. At first I kinda wrote it off as LARP as it was inspired by the Kenshin anime series, but some aspects of it seem like it could be supplementary to something like iaido. I kind of enjoy the aesthetic, even if its a bit larpy to me. Discuss: Jordan Williams you're on point. I recall mention that the ones who started up this particular contemporary dojo had backgrounds in choreography and stuntwork, hence the emphasis on the dramatic draw cuts. What they do is fun and a requires stamina and practice, but simultaneously it seems more like sport rather than fencing. Not dissing on it, it is still very fun to watch and observe the mechanics at play.
I've never been to big into the iaido scene for two main reasons. One, how many methods do you need to draw your sword? Draw the thing and if the initial attack fails its better to practice parries, blocks and counters than more drawing methods. Two...I ****ING HATE SEIZA. My knees do NOT like it one bit, so I never got into iaido very much as a LOT of kata start seated. Which is more for the contemporary 'zen' aspect of budo rather than the traditional 'application' aspect of budo, seeing as how if you're seated in seiza...you probably have a knife (tanto) or long dagger (wakizashi) rather than a full blown sword.
Well, I guess this opened my iaido can o' worms. I agree with zab and jordan. It's a sport/ choreography discipline, not so good for actual fighting. It does look like fun, and if it gets people interested in exercise and doing things instead of watching tv, then I'm all for it. "Battojutsu" is simply the oldest term for what we now know as "iaido" ("iaido"was adopted for postwar "touchy-feely" Zenny-poo marketing reasons to stress the non-violent philosophical aspects over actually slicing an opponent to shreds, distancing JSA from the IJA ). It was originally taught in conjunction with other martial arts as part of a samurai's integrated combat skills. Taught and done traditionally, it's just a synonym for iaido, with a slight difference in attitude implied by "jutsu".
IMHO, what's shown in those videos is pure bullshido. All I had to see of the second one was the kid's sloppy instinctive nukitsuke to know it was crap, though I figured that from the ryu name. They're well known as being a gendai ryu masquerading as a koryu, with a serious reek of "McDojo".
It kinda feels like most martial arts fall under the mcdojo catagory tbh. The moment I see the teacher taking two measures against an opponents single measure (or in case I'm using that term wrong, one motion against two) I become super skeptical. Even most hema just feels geared to one on one duels, which feel more like a dangerous sport than a real battle, as opposed to the modern misconception that the goal is the most efficiently murder of the other guy. ... Not saying any of this in defense of the videos posted. You all confirmed for me what I was alrwady thinking, but I had to ask as it was showed along side kenjutsu as if it was an equivalent. ... Also not dissing the nature of duels either. Thats what I believe most of us practice, and to be honest, duels have more practicality for a single person anyway (and to those who say it's not practical, it can be to settle disputes). |
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 24, 2020 2:40:13 GMT
It's not a stretch to categorize all modern swordplay as LARP, but that's OK. I'm not into swords for their practicality. I mean...I like to believe that I prefer the practical-ish side of sword stuff, but that's really just pointless snobbery. Folks twirling their expensive lightsaber replicas around in front of a smoke machine (and with a liberal smattering of After Effects force lightning) aren't any sillier than those of us murderizing water bottles and imported natural fiber floor mats in our backyards.
Being the enlightened guru that I am, I consider it a best practice to not kink shame (especially when one's own personage is slathered in Vaseline, sporting a ball gag, and rhinestone studded lederhosen).
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 24, 2020 3:17:06 GMT
The moment I see the teacher taking two measures against an opponents single measure (or in case I'm using that term wrong, one motion against two) I become super skeptical. The moment I see the teacher taking two measures against an opponents single measure (or in case I'm using that term wrong, one motion against two) I become super skeptical. Measure is the distance, I think you're looking for tempo, which is the timing. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 3:23:51 GMT
The moment I see the teacher taking two measures against an opponents single measure (or in case I'm using that term wrong, one motion against two) I become super skeptical. Measure is the distance, I think you're looking for tempo, which is the timing. Yes that's the one, thank you. I never thought to just ask anyone. I think thus is the first time I questioned it haha. I understand the how the terms are used when they are being used, but I don't really think about it afterward. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 3:25:17 GMT
It's not a stretch to categorize all modern swordplay as LARP, but that's OK. I'm not into swords for their practicality. I mean...I like to believe that I prefer the practical-ish side of sword stuff, but that's really just pointless snobbery. Folks twirling their expensive lightsaber replicas around in front of a smoke machine (and with a liberal smattering of After Effects force lightning) aren't any sillier than those of us murderizing water bottles and imported natural fiber floor mats in our backyards. Being the enlightened guru that I am, I consider it a best practice to not kink shame (especially when one's own personage is slathered in Vaseline, sporting a ball gag, and rhinestone studded lederhosen). You know, you have a point there. Even if a person becomes more capable, it's really what it boils down to. A lot of us want a way to enjoy it that doesn't feel as silly, but it's not like we don't rush to movies that may have a sword in them 😂 |
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 24, 2020 10:04:35 GMT
It's not a stretch to categorize all modern swordplay as LARP, but that's OK. I'm not into swords for their practicality. I mean...I like to believe that I prefer the practical-ish side of sword stuff, but that's really just pointless snobbery. Folks twirling their expensive lightsaber replicas around in front of a smoke machine (and with a liberal smattering of After Effects force lightning) aren't any sillier than those of us murderizing water bottles and imported natural fiber floor mats in our backyards. Being the enlightened guru that I am, I consider it a best practice to not kink shame (especially when one's own personage is slathered in Vaseline, sporting a ball gag, and rhinestone studded lederhosen). Well said. I agree 100%, especially when it comes to Japanese MA. I mean, how many people who study them are ethnic Japanese? It's all a little bit of LARPING to a point. That's why I largely don't bother with the traditional gi and hakama when I practice. And what's the vasaline for? The rhinestone lederhosen I got, but the rest of it? 😜 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 11:51:26 GMT
It's not a stretch to categorize all modern swordplay as LARP, but that's OK. I'm not into swords for their practicality. I mean...I like to believe that I prefer the practical-ish side of sword stuff, but that's really just pointless snobbery. Folks twirling their expensive lightsaber replicas around in front of a smoke machine (and with a liberal smattering of After Effects force lightning) aren't any sillier than those of us murderizing water bottles and imported natural fiber floor mats in our backyards. Being the enlightened guru that I am, I consider it a best practice to not kink shame (especially when one's own personage is slathered in Vaseline, sporting a ball gag, and rhinestone studded lederhosen). Well said. I agree 100%, especially when it comes to Japanese MA. I mean, how many people who study them are ethnic Japanese? It's all a little bit of LARPING to a point. That's why I largely don't bother with the traditional gi and hakama when I practice. And what's the vasaline for? The rhinestone lederhosen I got, but the rest of it? 😜 Yea it's why I dont bother with kiai either. I just don't believe I need to do that lol. Even if it did anything, a weak kiai from an ashamed guy isn't gonna cut it. At this point, the only non larping aspect to it is it does train your body to use a sword. Why? Why not 😎 On a side note One thing I see a lot in knife fighting is blocking an overhead strike, like as if anyone is ever gonna do that. Why do knife/dagger guys love teaching this "counter"? When you see most guys who wanna cut with a knife, they cut straight towards their target. No ones gonna try make a tatami slicing cut lol Do you guys think maybe this interpretation was influenced by the use of practice cutting? |
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Post by pgandy on Sept 24, 2020 13:36:04 GMT
Thanks for the second video. When I was interested in the katana I watched videos of “supposed” artists showing their style. One thing that caught my interest was the return. Without exception the chiburui was executed although with different techniques from tapping with the off hand to a flick. BS, that does not work. Like many video “artists” whether using a bo, nunchakus, or whatever it was showmanship. Rolling a bo across the back of one’s hand to spin, for instance, may earn points in competition but could get one injured otherwise. At mark 11:06 in the second video is demonstrated a practical way to return. He uses both methods, a flick and a wipe. I don’t understand the importance of the flick when the wipe does it all, nevertheless he wipes. That is the only way to really clean the blade.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 24, 2020 15:54:44 GMT
Yea it's why I dont bother with kiai either. I just don't believe I need to do that lol. Even if it did anything, a weak kiai from an ashamed guy isn't gonna cut it. At this point, the only non larping aspect to it is it does train your body to use a sword. Why? Why not 😎 On a side note One thing I see a lot in knife fighting is blocking an overhead strike, like as if anyone is ever gonna do that. Why do knife/dagger guys love teaching this "counter"? When you see most guys who wanna cut with a knife, they cut straight towards their target. No ones gonna try make a tatami slicing cut lol Do you guys think maybe this interpretation was influenced by the use of practice cutting? Because it's the easiest to teach somebody to defend, it looks awesome, and it sells training seats in the dojo. Real self-defense teachers know that it's very hard to stop a determined knife attacker, as you say, most will go in straight and violent. Sometimes it happens from stealth where a person will walk up to you and then immediately start stabbing- giving no time to think about what to do. All things considered, I'd rather be shot than stabbed. |
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 24, 2020 21:26:08 GMT
I remember seeing a video of Battojutsu before when studying Kenjutsu online. At first I kinda wrote it off as LARP as it was inspired by the Kenshin anime series, but some aspects of it seem like it could be supplementary to something like iaido. I kind of enjoy the aesthetic, even if its a bit larpy to me. Discuss: Jordan Williams you're on point. I recall mention that the ones who started up this particular contemporary dojo had backgrounds in choreography and stuntwork, hence the emphasis on the dramatic draw cuts. What they do is fun and a requires stamina and practice, but simultaneously it seems more like sport rather than fencing. Not dissing on it, it is still very fun to watch and observe the mechanics at play.
I've never been to big into the iaido scene for two main reasons. One, how many methods do you need to draw your sword? Draw the thing and if the initial attack fails its better to practice parries, blocks and counters than more drawing methods. Two...I ****ING HATE SEIZA. My knees do NOT like it one bit, so I never got into iaido very much as a LOT of kata start seated. Which is more for the contemporary 'zen' aspect of budo rather than the traditional 'application' aspect of budo, seeing as how if you're seated in seiza...you probably have a knife (tanto) or long dagger (wakizashi) rather than a full blown sword.
Well, I guess this opened my iaido can o' worms. I agree with zab and jordan. It's a sport/ choreography discipline, not so good for actual fighting. It does look like fun, and if it gets people interested in exercise and doing things instead of watching tv, then I'm all for it.
IMHO, what's shown in those videos is pure bullshido. All I had to see of the second one was the kid's sloppy instinctive nukitsuke to know it was crap, though I figured that from the ryu name. They're well known as being a gendai ryu masquerading as a koryu, with a serious reek of "McDojo".
Bullshido was my response too. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 1:12:38 GMT
Yea it's why I dont bother with kiai either. I just don't believe I need to do that lol. Even if it did anything, a weak kiai from an ashamed guy isn't gonna cut it. At this point, the only non larping aspect to it is it does train your body to use a sword. Why? Why not 😎 On a side note One thing I see a lot in knife fighting is blocking an overhead strike, like as if anyone is ever gonna do that. Why do knife/dagger guys love teaching this "counter"? When you see most guys who wanna cut with a knife, they cut straight towards their target. No ones gonna try make a tatami slicing cut lol Do you guys think maybe this interpretation was influenced by the use of practice cutting? Because it's the easiest to teach somebody to defend, it looks awesome, and it sells training seats in the dojo. Real self-defense teachers know that it's very hard to stop a determined knife attacker, as you say, most will go in straight and violent. Sometimes it happens from stealth where a person will walk up to you and then immediately start stabbing- giving no time to think about what to do. All things considered, I'd rather be shot than stabbed. I suppose what they really sell is the idea of security, as opposed to security itself. When it comes to training, I just enjoy anything that strengthens the body and helps make complex movements second nature. One reason I enjoy Kali. It's a great shoulder work out and it gets the brain building muscle memory. |
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 25, 2020 1:15:10 GMT
Yea it's why I dont bother with kiai either. I just don't believe I need to do that lol. Even if it did anything, a weak kiai from an ashamed guy isn't gonna cut it. At this point, the only non larping aspect to it is it does train your body to use a sword. Why? Why not 😎 On a side note One thing I see a lot in knife fighting is blocking an overhead strike, like as if anyone is ever gonna do that. Why do knife/dagger guys love teaching this "counter"? When you see most guys who wanna cut with a knife, they cut straight towards their target. No ones gonna try make a tatami slicing cut lol Do you guys think maybe this interpretation was influenced by the use of practice cutting? Because it's the easiest to teach somebody to defend, it looks awesome, and it sells training seats in the dojo. Real self-defense teachers know that it's very hard to stop a determined knife attacker, as you say, most will go in straight and violent. Sometimes it happens from stealth where a person will walk up to you and then immediately start stabbing- giving no time to think about what to do. All things considered, I'd rather be shot than stabbed. Gang-bangers and cons in general love that multiple fast stab semprini. |
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). It was originally taught in conjunction with other martial arts as part of a samurai's integrated combat skills. Taught and done traditionally, it's just a synonym for iaido, with a slight difference in attitude implied by "jutsu".
