Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 13:18:42 GMT
www.sierraclub.org/policy/fire-management-public-landsI don't discuss my political views on the forum. This is where I go for recreation. Having said that, I donate to the Sierra Club every year. One should donate to charitable funds to help people in danger, or to help them rebuild. I commend anyone who does so, even if they are rubbing it in my face in a performative manner. I choose to donate to causes that try to steer policy makers into the right direction. For what it's worth, the Sierra Club organization has been on top of the fires issue for decades. Now, advocacy is NOT a form of charity, I don't want to give that impression, but it plays a vital role in civil discourse and policy making. When stuff like this goes down, my instinct is to try to figure out what went wrong and find ways to fix it. What went wrong, in this case, has been going wrong since before I was born. I will continue to donate to organizations that try to affect policy, though I concede it is NOT charity. This should not imply I don't also give to charitable causes. I do, I just don't make a meal out of it. All I wanted was for forum members to tell us they are okay. I could have broadened the scope of the thread to include links to organizations that are trying to help. In a sense, LordNewport did that, even though he was also doing it to rub it in my face. Following LordNewport's lead, I made a donation to this organization this morning: wffoundation.org/ I love John Muir's writings, but I became disillusioned with the advocacy side of environmentalism in law school. I feel like the SC and others are more ways to funnel money to lawyers. I think the way to solving environmental problems will come from advances in tech versus lawsuits. In the meantime, I like orgs like American Prairie Reserve and the rocky Mountain Elk Foundation which focus on acquiring land to put into wilderness and wildlife habitat. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into those two organizations. There are some wildlife sanctuaries I give to annually, so these would fit in nicely. You may be right about environmental activism, in general. The lawsuits do matter and often put a pause on destructive activities, but these legal fees get awfully expensive. Perhaps it is best to give to organizations that acquire land. I used the Sierra Club as an example of an organization that has been on the right side of forest management for many years, though I acknowledge they have their own shortcomings.
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seth
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Post by seth on Sept 14, 2020 17:07:14 GMT
I love John Muir's writings, but I became disillusioned with the advocacy side of environmentalism in law school. I feel like the SC and others are more ways to funnel money to lawyers. I think the way to solving environmental problems will come from advances in tech versus lawsuits. In the meantime, I like orgs like American Prairie Reserve and the rocky Mountain Elk Foundation which focus on acquiring land to put into wilderness and wildlife habitat. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into those two organizations. There are some wildlife sanctuaries I give to annually, so these would fit in nicely. You may be right about environmental activism, in general. The lawsuits do matter and often put a pause on destructive activities, but these legal fees get awfully expensive. Perhaps it is best to give to organizations that acquire land. I used the Sierra Club as an example of an organization that has been on the right side of forest management for many years, though I acknowledge they have their own shortcomings. The lawsuits do serve a purpose--like a delaying action--I just hope that the time bought allows technological advances to make the need for destructive resource extraction moot. Anyway, sorry to throw my lawyer nerd stuff in here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 17:15:57 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into those two organizations. There are some wildlife sanctuaries I give to annually, so these would fit in nicely. You may be right about environmental activism, in general. The lawsuits do matter and often put a pause on destructive activities, but these legal fees get awfully expensive. Perhaps it is best to give to organizations that acquire land. I used the Sierra Club as an example of an organization that has been on the right side of forest management for many years, though I acknowledge they have their own shortcomings. The lawsuits do serve a purpose--like a delaying action--I just hope that the time bought allows technological advances to make the need for destructive resource extraction moot. Anyway, sorry to throw my lawyer nerd stuff in here. I actually work at a law firm, so no need to apologize. It's workers' comp, but I'm always curious about law.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 15, 2020 6:02:51 GMT
I love John Muir's writings, but I became disillusioned with the advocacy side of environmentalism in law school. I feel like the SC and others are more ways to funnel money to lawyers. I think the way to solving environmental problems will come from advances in tech versus lawsuits. In the meantime, I like orgs like American Prairie Reserve and the rocky Mountain Elk Foundation which focus on acquiring land to put into wilderness and wildlife habitat. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into those two organizations. There are some wildlife sanctuaries I give to annually, so these would fit in nicely. You may be right about environmental activism, in general. The lawsuits do matter and often put a pause on destructive activities, but these legal fees get awfully expensive. Perhaps it is best to give to organizations that acquire land. I used the Sierra Club as an example of an organization that has been on the right side of forest management for many years, though I acknowledge they have their own shortcomings. The Sierra club might have started out well and good but even in the past 3+ decades, it hasn't actually done much good for either the land or the people living on the land. They even used to roll boulders onto trails in Colorado, making it dangerous for hikers, pack outfitters, people who love and want to conserve nature, but know you need a hand in it. Like letting wolves (that aren't natural to this ecosystem) into N. California and Nevada. They don't have natural predators, and they have been responsible for quite a lot of death. And the people who have to deal with this new predator (who you can't legally get rid of) aren't the Sierra club advocates or similar environmentalists who have nothing but ego + emotion to gain from this. Meanwhile, if these people actually did care about animal health - they wouldn't allow a vicious species of creature that eats animals from the ass out alive to come into a territory for sentimentalist reasons. Easy to argue for them when you don't deal with them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 11:32:29 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into those two organizations. There are some wildlife sanctuaries I give to annually, so these would fit in nicely. You may be right about environmental activism, in general. The lawsuits do matter and often put a pause on destructive activities, but these legal fees get awfully expensive. Perhaps it is best to give to organizations that acquire land. I used the Sierra Club as an example of an organization that has been on the right side of forest management for many years, though I acknowledge they have their own shortcomings. The Sierra club might have started out well and good but even in the past 3+ decades, it hasn't actually done much good for either the land or the people living on the land. They even used to roll boulders onto trails in Colorado, making it dangerous for hikers, pack outfitters, people who love and want to conserve nature, but know you need a hand in it. Like letting wolves (that aren't natural to this ecosystem) into N. California and Nevada. They don't have natural predators, and they have been responsible for quite a lot of death. And the people who have to deal with this new predator (who you can't legally get rid of) aren't the Sierra club advocates or similar environmentalists who have nothing but ego + emotion to gain from this. Meanwhile, if these people actually did care about animal health - they wouldn't allow a vicious species of creature that eats animals from the ass out alive to come into a territory for sentimentalist reasons. Easy to argue for them when you don't deal with them.
As I previously stated, the Sierra Club has their shortcomings as an organization, they are not perfect. I believe I said the same thing about the Salvation Army, which actually does help people, but also donates sums of money to candidates who believe in conversion therapy, aka the physical and psychological torture of queer people like me. Perhaps the Sierra Club will change in a manner similar to how you predicted the Salvation Army will, when the younger generation seizes the reins from the old guard. They are correct about forest management, but they aren't right about everything. I appreciate what you've said and it is something I will think about.
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seth
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Post by seth on Sept 15, 2020 14:36:28 GMT
The lawsuits do serve a purpose--like a delaying action--I just hope that the time bought allows technological advances to make the need for destructive resource extraction moot. Anyway, sorry to throw my lawyer nerd stuff in here. I actually work at a law firm, so no need to apologize. It's workers' comp, but I'm always curious about law. My condolences JK-- When people ask what lawyering is like, I always tell them to read Bartleby the Scrivener. I like the independence that comes with lawyering though--such as I can decorate my office with swords and no corporate HR person can tell me to remove them.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 15, 2020 16:35:12 GMT
The Sierra club might have started out well and good but even in the past 3+ decades, it hasn't actually done much good for either the land or the people living on the land. They even used to roll boulders onto trails in Colorado, making it dangerous for hikers, pack outfitters, people who love and want to conserve nature, but know you need a hand in it. Like letting wolves (that aren't natural to this ecosystem) into N. California and Nevada. They don't have natural predators, and they have been responsible for quite a lot of death. And the people who have to deal with this new predator (who you can't legally get rid of) aren't the Sierra club advocates or similar environmentalists who have nothing but ego + emotion to gain from this. Meanwhile, if these people actually did care about animal health - they wouldn't allow a vicious species of creature that eats animals from the ass out alive to come into a territory for sentimentalist reasons. Easy to argue for them when you don't deal with them.
As I previously stated, the Sierra Club has their shortcomings as an organization, they are not perfect. I believe I said the same thing about the Salvation Army, which actually does help people, but also donates sums of money to candidates who believe in conversion therapy, aka the physical and psychological torture of queer people like me. Perhaps the Sierra Club will change in a manner similar to how you predicted the Salvation Army will, when the younger generation seizes the reins from the old guard. They are correct about forest management, but they aren't right about everything. I appreciate what you've said and it is something I will think about. I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on their policies regarding forest management. See, this is actually one of the reasons why I think some topics shouldn't be such a big taboo. We're perfectly able to talk about issues like this, even when they regard things we hold as incredibly important, intelligently, without flipping out and becoming raving a - holes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 16:38:31 GMT
As I previously stated, the Sierra Club has their shortcomings as an organization, they are not perfect. I believe I said the same thing about the Salvation Army, which actually does help people, but also donates sums of money to candidates who believe in conversion therapy, aka the physical and psychological torture of queer people like me. Perhaps the Sierra Club will change in a manner similar to how you predicted the Salvation Army will, when the younger generation seizes the reins from the old guard. They are correct about forest management, but they aren't right about everything. I appreciate what you've said and it is something I will think about. I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on their policies regarding forest management. See, this is actually one of the reasons why I think some topics shouldn't be such a big taboo. We're perfectly able to talk about issues like this, even when they regard things we hold as incredibly important, intelligently, without flipping out and becoming raving a - holes.
Agreed. I have learned a few things from this thread. For as much as I have talked, I have also listened. I will continue to listen as lives depend upon it.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 15, 2020 23:06:32 GMT
I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on their policies regarding forest management. See, this is actually one of the reasons why I think some topics shouldn't be such a big taboo. We're perfectly able to talk about issues like this, even when they regard things we hold as incredibly important, intelligently, without flipping out and becoming raving a - holes.
Agreed. I have learned a few things from this thread. For as much as I have talked, I have also listened. I will continue to listen as lives depend upon it. If the Sierra Club was headed with your mentality, I don't think there would be these fires, because the issue is ideology, or a slavish nature to it, which naturally dq's any actual proper thought. But that's the issue with lots of big orgs. Even the Red Cross was at one point slavish to racial science ideology. I do like your earlier maxim.
Btw, gosh dang this shashka grip wood is wet lol. It's gonna be a beauty though. Coincidentally, someone in my club was practicing sparring with shashkas last weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 0:17:57 GMT
Agreed. I have learned a few things from this thread. For as much as I have talked, I have also listened. I will continue to listen as lives depend upon it. If the Sierra Club was headed with your mentality, I don't think there would be these fires, because the issue is ideology, or a slavish nature to it, which naturally dq's any actual proper thought. But that's the issue with lots of big orgs. Even the Red Cross was at one point slavish to racial science ideology. I do like your earlier maxim.
Btw, gosh dang this shashka grip wood is wet lol. It's gonna be a beauty though. Coincidentally, someone in my club was practicing sparring with shashkas last weekend.
I think the longer these organizations persist, the more dogmatic those core beliefs can become. That resolution I shared from the Sierra Club was from around the year of my birth. A lot has changed since then, especially in the organization itself. As Seth so astutely pointed out, although lawsuits have their place in the world of activism, that isn't all there is and the organization seems only to function to fight battles in court and pay the fees of high priced retainers. It has also become an echo chamber. My local chapter has different concerns and doesn't seem to be driven as much by ideology. Given the distance between us geographically, I think we might as well be from different worlds.
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Post by Lord Newport on Oct 26, 2020 17:20:15 GMT
Well.. back on evacuation standby for my horse and the others in the barn I board him at...and then any others I can help with in the area. I was just able to secure 90 temporary stalls at the Los Alamitos race track for evacuation horses. Just sitting here waiting to see which way the winds will send the wildfire.... Again it would appear to be downed powerlines caused this. Our single party leadership in Sacramento are spending billions and billions of dollars on a bullet train to nowhere when the money would've been far better spent on air tankers and upgrading the power grid but who am I to ever criticize the masters of the universe that run California. www.nbclosangeles.com/news/california-wildfires/brush-fire-orange-county-wildfire-santiago-canyon/2449550/twitter.com/OCFA_PIO
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Post by illustry on Oct 26, 2020 17:31:25 GMT
That's why I left CA in 2017 Lord Newport - used to live in your neck of the woods - the IE - and newport was a favorite spot of mine. Beautiful state, but could no longer tolerate how it's run. Go TX!
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Post by Lord Newport on Oct 26, 2020 18:00:47 GMT
That's why I left CA in 2017 Lord Newport - used to live in your neck of the woods - the IE - and newport was a favorite spot of mine. Beautiful state, but could no longer tolerate how it's run. Go TX! Problem is that a lot of Californians are moving to TX because the party/politicians in control Of California for the last 30 years are turning it into another third world craphole...and when they arrive in TX, they will blindly vote for the same Policies/party/politicians they did in California. Austin is already gone over... www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-10-25/california-economy-weakness-unemployment-tech-industries
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Post by illustry on Oct 26, 2020 18:45:58 GMT
agreed.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 27, 2020 3:50:35 GMT
Grazing and logging would have made these fires nothing burgers.
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Post by Lord Newport on Oct 27, 2020 4:31:32 GMT
Grazing and logging would have made these fires nothing burgers. Wait...are you implying that all those trees, animals and birds, many endangered, would have been saved if grazing and logging hand been used to help manage the forests? Sorry you are wrong... its all global warming's fault. Big Brother is disappointed in you for failing Groupthink 101. Off to a reeducation camp for you until you can conform
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 0:52:48 GMT
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