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Post by dissonata on Sept 5, 2020 0:10:43 GMT
Wasn't sure if I should post here or in the Japanese sword thread, so I apologize if this is a bit misplaced.
I practice Shinkendo and Toyama Ryu, and have been training for about 2 years. I have attained sufficient rank to start using an iaito for practice, I need a steel blade with bohi, double mekugi and relatively plain aesthetic. I'm 5'2" and have small hands, while most of the other practioners are 6'+. One sensei has let me borrow a 29" Kurin iaito that I like, although it is definitely too big for me. The nagasa on this sword is 29", and I can't draw/resheath it if I wear the sword properly. It's also a real struggle to practice with it, as it's heavy for me (around 950g).
I just wondered if anyone had recommendations for lighter steel iaito. Thanks!
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Post by whitefeathers on Sept 5, 2020 0:26:01 GMT
I use a Hanwei Nami Stainless steel iaito that is I found on ebay 10 years ago. (dang I can't believe I had that sword that long!) its 27" I'm 5'3" and have short fingers so I had to have the tsuka reshaped. it weighs just shy of 2 lbs and is balanced fabulously. It doesn't feel heavy at all. I know they don't make them anymore and the next iteration was the Hanwei Gorin. But I'm not even sure if they make those anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 0:28:27 GMT
I feel like most modern Katana would be suitable, as the whole thing is kind of short for your average western male
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Post by jyamada on Sept 5, 2020 0:36:06 GMT
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Post by dissonata on Sept 5, 2020 1:46:51 GMT
I am definitely eyeing that Kurin iaito! I'm just trying to get a feel for the length I would need. It's a bit difficult to get hands on experience at the moment with social distancing and the population of my dojo, so I'm trying to collect information for an educated guess. Steel is one of my sensei's requirements, although from what I understand it is not necessarily a blanket requirement for our school. We rarely use iaito in the class setting, the main use is to train hasuji for tameshigiri testing.
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Post by bradc on Sept 5, 2020 17:16:53 GMT
Wasn't sure if I should post here or in the Japanese sword thread, so I apologize if this is a bit misplaced. I practice Shinkendo and Toyama Ryu, and have been training for about 2 years. I have attained sufficient rank to start using an iaito for practice, I need a steel blade with bohi, double mekugi and relatively plain aesthetic. I'm 5'2" and have small hands, while most of the other practioners are 6'+. One sensei has let me borrow a 29" Kurin iaito that I like, although it is definitely too big for me. The nagasa on this sword is 29", and I can't draw/resheath it if I wear the sword properly. It's also a real struggle to practice with it, as it's heavy for me (around 950g). I just wondered if anyone had recommendations for lighter steel iaito. Thanks! Just to clarify are you looking for a non sharp or sharp blade? Also has your Sensei recommended a specific length for nagasa and tsuka? With standard Iaito (aluminum alloy, nosyudo, seido shop, tozando and aoi budogu are good suppliers) it is really easy to get one customized to your needs for a relatively affordable price. With steel that gets more difficult as Japan suppliers will be traditional blades (expensive), and while outside of Japan will be more economical, it will still be substantially more than a aluminum Iaito if you need customization . Also I should mention that getting a steel blade light enough may be a challenge vs an aluminum Iaito. In some schools people end up having two swords (one for cutting, one for solo waza) if your Sensei allows that it may be something to consider (but there are many valid reasons to insist on one sword while learning) Shorter blades are easier to find in Japan than longer ones so you may have good luck on giheya (https://giheiya.com/) or watching aoi art (https://www.aoijapan.com/) for a unsigned blade. As other have mentioned hanwei has some shorter production blades with reasonable quality for the price. With any production /pre-made sword you may be looking at some modification (primarily tsuka shortening, which is inexpensive) depending on you schools needs. For custom I went with a Motohara (Korea) for Iaido as the dimensions are fully customizable and build quality meets or exceeds high end Iaito. Customizable also means you have a bit of control over weight. The one caveat I would add is that the tsuka on mine is girthier than most Japanese made swords which would be a problem for smaller hands (Fits my hands men's medium glove size, perfectly) so if you went that route just make sure you discuss if that can be adjusted. Also make sure you ask the other students in your school. There may be prefered suppliers or brands, and everyone else has already found something that fits your schools style. Good Luck finding your new sword.
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Post by dissonata on Sept 7, 2020 18:06:02 GMT
Just to clarify are you looking for a non sharp or sharp blade? Also has your Sensei recommended a specific length for nagasa and tsuka? With standard Iaito (aluminum alloy, nosyudo, seido shop, tozando and aoi budogu are good suppliers) it is really easy to get one customized to your needs for a relatively affordable price. With steel that gets more difficult as Japan suppliers will be traditional blades (expensive), and while outside of Japan will be more economical, it will still be substantially more than a aluminum Iaito if you need customization . Also I should mention that getting a steel blade light enough may be a challenge vs an aluminum Iaito. In some schools people end up having two swords (one for cutting, one for solo waza) if your Sensei allows that it may be something to consider (but there are many valid reasons to insist on one sword while learning) Shorter blades are easier to find in Japan than longer ones so you may have good luck on giheya (https://giheiya.com/) or watching aoi art (https://www.aoijapan.com/) for a unsigned blade. As other have mentioned hanwei has some shorter production blades with reasonable quality for the price. With any production /pre-made sword you may be looking at some modification (primarily tsuka shortening, which is inexpensive) depending on you schools needs. For custom I went with a Motohara (Korea) for Iaido as the dimensions are fully customizable and build quality meets or exceeds high end Iaito. Customizable also means you have a bit of control over weight. The one caveat I would add is that the tsuka on mine is girthier than most Japanese made swords which would be a problem for smaller hands (Fits my hands men's medium glove size, perfectly) so if you went that route just make sure you discuss if that can be adjusted. Also make sure you ask the other students in your school. There may be prefered suppliers or brands, and everyone else has already found something that fits your schools style. Good Luck finding your new sword. Thanks for your thorough comment! I am currently looking for a non-sharp blade with bohi. This one will be used for waza. It will still be a few years before I'm allowed to purchase a shinken, but at my current level I am allowed to perform limited tameshigiri under supervision. I have checked around with others in my school, but most are big, tall guys that have been practicing for years. Their iaito are either way too heavy for me or are out of production, so that's why I have extended my net a bit by asking here. Tsuka: I have sized the tsuka based on our school's recommendations and I will need a 9" tsuka, I know most are 10" so it's good to know that's an inexpensive adjustment. I wear a women's size small glove, so a narrow tsuka is definitely preferred. Nagasa: He recommended that I get the longest length I could comfortably draw and stay true to form. I spent some time going over battoho with him this weekend to see what would be appropriate, and I think that a 28"/2.35 shaku blade is probably that limit for me. Weight: I am trying to balance the line between having a blade that allows productive practice with my current level of strength and the understanding that I need to build that strength over time. Most of our waza is geared towards safe and efficient tameshigiri, so a steel blade is much preferred. I love the Motohara katana and have seen good things about them. Sensei recommended going full custom for shinken, so I will file them away for later use. Thank you!
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Post by vidar on Sept 7, 2020 22:05:53 GMT
Why does it need to be a steel iaito?
I have a custom steel iaito from MAS. It’s a bit pricey but quality is very good.
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Post by zabazagobo on Sept 7, 2020 22:27:12 GMT
The emphasis on "unsharpened steel" iaito also makes me a bit puzzled.
Have you checked out tozando or e-bogu? They're reliable, I just never shop around for iaito (minor personal preference: using a sharp blade makes it very difficult to 'check out' and get sloppy with technique...but the saya doesn't approve of 'a work in progress' lol)
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Post by dissonata on Sept 7, 2020 22:42:52 GMT
Why does it need to be a steel iaito? I have a custom steel iaito from MAS. It’s a bit pricey but quality is very good. Essentially, because sensei said so. I think it's because the purpose of the iaito is to prepare us for cutting, and it should be as much like a shinken as possible. One of our assistant sensei has as MAS iaito, he recommended it as well. i haven't had a chance to try it since the pandemic is going, but it is in my price range. How do you feel about the fit and finish, and the grip?
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Post by whitefeathers on Sept 7, 2020 22:56:27 GMT
MAS is good. I have one of their Korean sharp swords .. And the handle is nice and thin for small hands. Balanced nicely.
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Post by vidar on Sept 8, 2020 8:05:26 GMT
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Post by bradc on Sept 8, 2020 23:52:01 GMT
If it must be steel Skyjiro also has some of their swords available as Iaito @ 2.37 shaku with 10" tsuka. www.skyjiroforge.com/skyjiro-sword-iaito-class-iaito-series-c-5_30.htmlTheir shinken don't seem to be super popular around here in terms of value, but the one I saw once was reasonably well made. Good luck finding something. For tsuka shortening it's time consuming but not too hard to do by yourself (assuming the shortening doesn't reach the nakago itself and is just cutting the wood). Thomas buck has some details on the end knot in his book and online which I followed when shortening mine. Check with your Sensei if you can use the slightly long handle as well. In my style we prefer shorter tsuka, since they are difficult to find most junior students (and many seniors) just adjust their grip and use the longer handle.
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 8, 2020 23:59:11 GMT
OP, where do you live and what line of Toyama Ryu are you studying under? Your sensei would normally be the one to tell you what size blade/tsuka he feels is appropriate for you within the parameters of your studies.
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Post by dissonata on Sept 9, 2020 2:23:11 GMT
OP, where do you live and what line of Toyama Ryu are you studying under? Your sensei would normally be the one to tell you what size blade/tsuka he feels is appropriate for you within the parameters of your studies. I have been working with my sensei, and I do feel that I have the general dimensions nailed down. Sorry if I was confusing! My main goal at this point is getting information on weight and grip circumference (I really do have small hands), and trying to determine my options for light steel iaito - there are just not that many out there. I do feel that I have some good options in this thread, and my sensei has approved them so I'll probably go with one of those recommendations.
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 9, 2020 2:51:58 GMT
OP, where do you live and what line of Toyama Ryu are you studying under? Your sensei would normally be the one to tell you what size blade/tsuka he feels is appropriate for you within the parameters of your studies. I have been working with my sensei, and I do feel that I have the general dimensions nailed down. Sorry if I was confusing! My main goal at this point is getting information on weight and grip circumference (I really do have small hands), and trying to determine my options for light steel iaito - there are just not that many out there. I do feel that I have some good options in this thread, and my sensei has approved them so I'll probably go with one of those recommendations. I can not recommend the use of a steel Iaito for unranked students. I used a Meirin Sangyo Iaito until my Shodan rank in Toyama Ryu, they are the company that invented the Iaito, that had a aluminum-zinc alloy blade; a bit lighter than a steel blade. You may have to look to having a custom tsuka made for your smaller hands. After my Shodan rank, which in Toyama Ryu includes tameshigiri in the testing process, my Sensei allowed me to switch to a shinken for Iai and I used a nice antique nihonto with bo-hi that I would never use for cutting. I studied Mugai Ryu, ZNBDR and Toyama Ryu (under Hataya Sensei's line) and there was never an issue using the zinc-aluminum Iaito for training and for lower level Tai Kai kata Competition both in the US and in Japan. As to sizing, it should have both a blade and tsuka the same length as your tameshigiri shinken. You might also want to join and solicit input over on E-Budo.com ( www.e-budo.com/forum/forum.php ) where you will find a lot more knowledgeable opinions and information from current JSA practitioners. You may also find what you are looking for over on their Classifieds forum.
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Post by dissonata on Sept 9, 2020 17:50:44 GMT
I have been working with my sensei, and I do feel that I have the general dimensions nailed down. Sorry if I was confusing! My main goal at this point is getting information on weight and grip circumference (I really do have small hands), and trying to determine my options for light steel iaito - there are just not that many out there. I do feel that I have some good options in this thread, and my sensei has approved them so I'll probably go with one of those recommendations. I can not recommend the use of a steel Iaito for unranked students. I used a Meirin Sangyo Iaito until my Shodan rank in Toyama Ryu, they are the company that invented the Iaito, that had a aluminum-zinc alloy blade; a bit lighter than a steel blade. You may have to look to having a custom tsuka made for your smaller hands. After my Shodan rank, which in Toyama Ryu includes tameshigiri in the testing process, my Sensei allowed me to switch to a shinken for Iai and I used a nice antique nihonto with bo-hi that I would never use for cutting. I studied Mugai Ryu, ZNBDR and Toyama Ryu (under Hataya Sensei's line) and there was never an issue using the zinc-aluminum Iaito for training and for lower level Tai Kai kata Competition both in the US and in Japan. As to sizing, it should have both a blade and tsuka the same length as your tameshigiri shinken. You might also want to join and solicit input over on E-Budo.com ( www.e-budo.com/forum/forum.php ) where you will find a lot more knowledgeable opinions and information from current JSA practitioners. You may also find what you are looking for over on their Classifieds forum. Thank you for the input. Just to clarify, is it steel you think is not appropriate for a low-ranked student, or a shinken? I will not be allowed to use a shinken until I pass tameshigiri evaluations. I am looking for a blunt steel blade only. From what I understand the preference for steel over zinc alloy is from my sensei, not necessarily a school-wide edict. I will ask for more details from him.
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 9, 2020 18:38:15 GMT
I can not recommend the use of a steel Iaito for unranked students. I used a Meirin Sangyo Iaito until my Shodan rank in Toyama Ryu, they are the company that invented the Iaito, that had a aluminum-zinc alloy blade; a bit lighter than a steel blade. You may have to look to having a custom tsuka made for your smaller hands. After my Shodan rank, which in Toyama Ryu includes tameshigiri in the testing process, my Sensei allowed me to switch to a shinken for Iai and I used a nice antique nihonto with bo-hi that I would never use for cutting. I studied Mugai Ryu, ZNBDR and Toyama Ryu (under Hataya Sensei's line) and there was never an issue using the zinc-aluminum Iaito for training and for lower level Tai Kai kata Competition both in the US and in Japan. As to sizing, it should have both a blade and tsuka the same length as your tameshigiri shinken. You might also want to join and solicit input over on E-Budo.com ( www.e-budo.com/forum/forum.php ) where you will find a lot more knowledgeable opinions and information from current JSA practitioners. You may also find what you are looking for over on their Classifieds forum. Thank you for the input. Just to clarify, is it steel you think is not appropriate for a low-ranked student, or a shinken? I will not be allowed to use a shinken until I pass tameshigiri evaluations. I am looking for a blunt steel blade only. From what I understand the preference for steel over zinc alloy is from my sensei, not necessarily a school-wide edict. I will ask for more details from him. A traditional iaito is made metal, but a zinc-aluminum alloy, not steel. If you are having issues with the weight of a steel blade, the slightly lighter zinc-alloy might be a better place to start until you build up your upper body/arm strength. I never saw blunt steel iaito used in my dojo... just the traditional blunt zinc-aluminum blade or a shinken with bo-hi. I am also surprised you have a sensei who would let you use a sword that was too long or heavy for you... as either can create dangerous situations. The best advice I can give you is the same for any JSA student/practitioner... "ask and follow the advice of your sensei" and if he says steel then get steel but it may be hard to find steel in your size. The Zinc-alloy blades made in Japan are available in small sizes for the many Japanese women who train in Iai.
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Post by vidar on Sept 9, 2020 18:53:38 GMT
Just for information: my MAS steel iaito has a thin blade and is not significantly heavier than a Japanese iaito. The size is 2.4.5 Shaku and the weight is still only 900g. Since it’s custom made, you can request the best size for you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2020 8:48:21 GMT
This thread got a lot of attention... I wonder why
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