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Post by warriorpoet on Aug 29, 2020 16:03:49 GMT
I use to lurk quite a bit on one of the first iterations of this forum. It was so active! Daily postings, reviews, everyone using their swords and posting it.
I think it was largely windlass, darksword, generation 2 etc.
These were solid "battle ready " swords but no more than a couple hundred dollars at most.
At that cost, most could collect a few and use them. If blades got dinged up from pells or flubbed cuts...meh.
It got me thinking. I own many swords now, the vast majority windlass. I wouldn't hesitate to go use them and cut with them apart from a couple that are sentimental and if they broke /failed the emotional cost might be too great.
Anyway, time goes on and tastes became more refined-distal taper this, fancy scabbard that. I'm not accusing anyone of snobbery, but now I get the vibe that there isn't much excitement below the 500 or 1k mark.
I would hesitate to own a sword at that level because I think it would just hang on my wall.
Is there a sweet spot for cost Vs function and fun?
I could sell a bunch if my "low tier " swords and maybe get a couple Albions or valiant armoury etc.
Idunno. I guess I just miss the community and excitement about simpler things, it all seemed so accessible I suppose!
I think my threshold is probably 2-3 hundred tops for a sword.
I got a hanwei cawood from a forum member here, amazing sword. A factory second windlass arbedo from KoA, these perform so remarkably! I think I'm happy at that level maybe.
Not to fault those who don't get out of bed for less than a custom job or at least the top tier Albion, but then I'd love to see a robust forum and activity around that. Let's see those beautiful blades work a pell, test their mettle against medium of their time (shields, chain mail etc).
I loved seeing new reviews of items I could afford and then folks would test them hard. All different swords, windlass dirks, lakonians, gen2 halfling swords...good times.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 29, 2020 16:30:53 GMT
This forum has seen a lot of changes in the pay five years or so, but then so has the production sword world. Brands come and go, interests shift, education raises expectations, the market adjusts... There's still plenty of "decent" swords out there under $300, but more focus has fallen into improving offerings beyond the constraints of that price point. Fit and finish, dynamic balance, historic specs, etc all cost a lot more now than they used to, especially when "we" have come to expect a higher standard than we used to be satisfied with. I haven't bought a production sword in years. Most recent was a shashka from Kizlyar. Before that, by several years, was another shashka iteration from Hanwei. Somewhere between the two i picked up several inexpensive antiques and have decided I prefer collecting them, which suits me fine as almost nothing in the current production market really appeals to me, anyway. I'm certainly not going to spend antique money on the latest favorite production model.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 17:02:43 GMT
The reproductions I have left (that were used for cutting) were by and large more pricy than $300 and dollars from 15+ years ago. Two Atrim brand new at less than $500. You can't touch that now. My remaining A&A (GBS) was $400 brand new used and now retails in the $1000 range. My A&A Black Prince in bronze (bought from A&A) was $375 and $75 for a scabbard. Again now in the $1000 bracket. My choice of an India made sabre was close to $200. Used Del Tins in the $300ish range and less. My Hanwei Practical was $125 in 2003. My Cold Steel English Backsword was $215. My second hand Hanwei Mort was about $175. So yes, some of my stuff was less expensive.
A period sabre I bought specifically for cutting (1820s-1830s) was in the mid $300 range.
The bump in overall discussion here for the higher priced medieval stuff started about a decade ago. There is still a fair amount of chatter about less expensive swords but even a lot of beginners are listing their budget at $500 or more. There are still more katanaesque bargains discussed than medieval.
There has been a tendency in the past few years in seeing lower priced stuff disparaged but often gently so. Other times not so friendly in explanation.
Cheers GC
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 17:11:38 GMT
As to volume in active posters, most forums have declined and here at SBG, you'll see the same few dozens as regular posters.
Cheers GC
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Post by pellius on Aug 30, 2020 3:27:44 GMT
For me, the sub-$300 market just doesn’t have that many new and interesting offerings anymore, and at this point I’ve owned most of the ones that are available. There’s just not a lot to talk about.
Add rising prices for swords and shipping, and skyrocketing risk in shipping (especially from Europe and China), and they just can’t compete with all the very nice budget-oriented antique swords easily available over the internet.
I still really like my Hanwei Cawood and Oxtail; my HT Viking and KA Type XIV, and a few others. I just don’t have anything new to say about them. If a newer enthusiast asks for opinions, I always recommend them, though.
My anecdotal experience has been that folks in my neck o’ the woods (central Florida) generally still think swords are kinda cool, but not nearly as desirable as a new iPhone or video game. This is even more true of more expensive swords that compete against a broad range of entertainment. (For example, an Albion now goes for as much as a premium annual pass to Disney World, even after Disney’s huuuuge price hikes.)
’Round here, swords - even katana - have become very niche.
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Aug 30, 2020 6:32:01 GMT
As someone who collects swords more for their aesthetics then daily use i just find more expensive pieces better capture the look i want, i also almost exclusively cut with more budget swords because then i dont worry about scuffing the finish, theres nothing wrong with swords in any budget range and theres something out there for everyone, and as pellius said the good sub 300 options are pretty well documented and well known, tho some new ones do pop up from time to time
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Post by treeslicer on Aug 30, 2020 8:38:45 GMT
Is there a sweet spot for cost Vs function and fun? Yes. I'd put it between $200-$400 for total project cost depending on what antique fittings you buy to replace the alloy crap.
My understanding of the matter (which some here will disagree with), based on numerous recent historical and metallurgical publications on nihonto, as well as decades of personal experience with differentially hardened edged weapons (nihonto, nihonto reproductions, Filipino bolos, Nepalese kukris, and Indonesian kerises) suggests that, measured in terms of chip/break resistance, bend resistance, geometry, and ability to hold a sub-micron-sharp edge, you can get Chinese production DH katana blades as good as either average quality Muromachi-era koto nihonto blades for folded steel, or as good as superior-quality hand-forged Showa-era Type 98 shin gunto sunobe blades for monosteel. I own and use several, and have never paid more than $214.99 for any of them, the average being around $160 including shipping. Availability of suitable blades at modest cost is not the primary problem.
The important points are:
**The blade dates to 2014 or later (has to do with when certain logistic changes were made in Longquan).
**The blade's hamon shows unmistakable signs of being differentially water-quenched from a sufficiently high temperature.
**You are sufficiently competent a craftsman to scrap and redo any part of the mounting that is below your personal quality standards, as well as finish the polishing of the blade. I will note that, out of 12 Chinese production swords I've bought, 2 (an unokubi-zukuri katana and a reproduction Type 98 gunto) actually required no metal parts changes to look Japanese, so, it can happen, but it's not the way to bet.
Anyway, that's my admittedly nihontocentric take on it.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 30, 2020 9:22:35 GMT
I still see many threads here about swords in the sub 500 $ or even sub $ 300 area, Balaur, Deepeeka, Windlass, Kingston Arms, Hanwei, Longquan Ebay kat sellers, etc. Most of my swords are in this area and my few more expensive ones aren't sooo much better. One still can find good swords there, but also bad swords and the challenge is to get the good ones.
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Post by MOK on Aug 31, 2020 14:56:45 GMT
My most expensive swords were both 500€...
Honestly, purely in terms of the ratio of price to function and fun, I think it's hard to beat stuff like some of the better Cold Steel machetes.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 31, 2020 15:04:50 GMT
Yeah, they're great in this. But there are also a few good Windlass swords for ca. 200 - 300. Most of them classics.
It would be nice to see more reviews or impressions of the newer Marto-Windlass swords with the nicer hilts (which come from Marto I guess), Suontaka, Durendal, Faithkeeper etc. I don't buy them because they all seem to be heavy, 3 - 4 lb.
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Post by warriorpoet on Aug 31, 2020 15:32:46 GMT
Good point in balaur arms, I see a lot of posts and generally positive reviews on their stuff, and they seem to be expanding.
Also wanted to chime in on the CS machete swords.
I finally picked up the cs gladius and eventually the uc gladius (combat commander) to compare.
Much prefer the cs gladius. Remarkably thick steel. I think it could be used more as a sword, like a crude rank and file mass produced kind of sword (probably a lot like what a grunt would have to work with!).
But you're right, tons of fun for 30 bucks and holds up great except for the point... Too thin there and will shortly roll but easy fixed.
I saw a YouTube video of a guy rehilting his so we got a peak of the nice thick continuous tang on that beast.
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Post by Dandelion on Aug 31, 2020 16:51:23 GMT
My most expensive swords were both 500€... Honestly, purely in terms of the ratio of price to function and fun, I think it's hard to beat stuff like some of the better Cold Steel machetes. Condor?
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Post by MOK on Aug 31, 2020 18:24:41 GMT
My most expensive swords were both 500€... Honestly, purely in terms of the ratio of price to function and fun, I think it's hard to beat stuff like some of the better Cold Steel machetes. Condor? In the same rough league, I'd say, cheap and cheerful. Point being, if all you're looking for is function and fun use, you can actually get A LOT of bang for your buck at the very bottom of the price range.
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Post by Lord Newport on Aug 31, 2020 18:33:03 GMT
Another interesting viewpoint might be which would you bet your life on? The cheap or the expensive...I know its a lot more complicated than that but think about the swords you would trust in that regard... and which category do they fall into?
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Post by treeslicer on Aug 31, 2020 18:48:51 GMT
Another interesting viewpoint might be which would you bet your life on? The cheap or the expensive... The problem in making such judgements being that, in many markets (violins, motor vehicles, and swords being 3 of them which I am very familiar with), the prices are commonly manipulated so that you don't really get the increased functionality expected, with any predictable linearity, as the prices increase.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 31, 2020 19:00:13 GMT
There's a lot of diminishing returns in most markets. At a certain point, spending ten more hours polishing something just stops having any real, appreciable effect. Certain woods may or may not carry a sound better in certain shapes, or be more adaptable to stresses in a sword hilt. There comes a point where you can pick up three swords, two will "feel" much better than the other one, but neither will really outpace the other...and one could well cost 10x more. It's just that the one sword was 1/10 the price of the less expensive of the other two.
Honestly, the whole idea of "which sword would you trust your life to" is a poor question. It's not the sword that matters at that point, it's knowing how to use it. Besides, swords are almost exclusively offensive weapons. If you want something to protect you, wear armor. Better yet, run away, wearing armor.
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Post by Lord Newport on Aug 31, 2020 19:04:50 GMT
Another interesting viewpoint might be which would you bet your life on? The cheap or the expensive... The problem in making such judgements being that, in many markets (violins, motor vehicles, and swords being 3 of them which I am very familiar with), the prices are commonly manipulated so that you don't really get the increased functionality expected, with any predictable linearity, as the prices increase. I am not suggesting that there is a standard price/functionality graph that can be constructed since both price and functionality are to varying degrees subjective. it was a simple question...which sword do you won that you would rely on the most and is which categorywould you place it... cheap or expensive. There's a lot of diminishing returns in most markets. At a certain point, spending ten more hours polishing something just stops having any real, appreciable effect. Certain woods may or may not carry a sound better in certain shapes, or be more adaptable to stresses in a sword hilt. There comes a point where you can pick up three swords, two will "feel" much better than the other one, but neither will really outpace the other...and one could well cost 10x more. It's just that the one sword was 1/10 the price of the less expensive of the other two. Honestly, the whole idea of "which sword would you trust your life to" is a poor question. It's not the sword that matters at that point, it's knowing how to use it. Besides, swords are almost exclusively offensive weapons. If you want something to protect you, wear armor. Better yet, run away, wearing armor.
I disagree, a swords ability to provide optimal performance in a lethal confrontation is the ultimate determination of its intrinsic value... And since this is all speculation anyway...its as valid a point of measure as any other.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 31, 2020 19:14:38 GMT
Well, in that case, your typical 440 wallhanger is as good as an Albion...once, maybe twice.
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Post by Dandelion on Aug 31, 2020 20:37:35 GMT
Another interesting viewpoint might be which would you bet your life on? The cheap or the expensive...I know its a lot more complicated than that but think about the swords you would trust in that regard... and which category do they fall into? Zombie Tools of course - and not one of the spectacular, over built ones. The newer Apokatana, or the latest Deuce.
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Post by Verity on Sept 1, 2020 0:46:39 GMT
Interesting thread. As someone who actually owns a wide range of prices on swords, production to custom to antique: First. I'd never cut with one of my antiques. I view myself as a caretaker of them as a piece of history. Second. I HAVE cut with my $1000+ swords. I own Atrims and Fletchers and FableBlades. I generally shy from cutting with them simply to avoid scuffing the finish or dulling the edges and generally use the lower priced blades for cutting for a simple practical reason: if I do something with a bad cut I won't be sad about having to replace a production blade. So I generally DO use my production blades for the majority of cutting and use. But I HAVE used the higher priced pieces to do so (excluding antiques). Just my thoughts on the subject and pulling myself out of Lurk mode which I have tried to do more of lately.
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