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Post by nebulatech on Aug 30, 2020 23:41:24 GMT
Interesting, thank you! An English name... From what I remember, katakana is for non-Japanese things (like an English name). I believe you found it difficult to make out the other side, or it just didn't seem to make sense. I wonder if in light of the English name, if the writing on the front could be a phonetic translation of English as well?
It looks like the shirasaya probably doesn't say "Property of Tokugawa Ieyasu" or anything like that. No clues pointing to this being an obscure hidden gem. But that's fine with me. Thanks again!
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 31, 2020 0:17:44 GMT
I still can't make any sense of the other side. "Ichikatsu" (イチカツ) does turn up some Japanese pages in Google but none seem related. My keyboard wants it to be 1月 which is January, but I'm not sure this would be grammatically correct.
As for "Ichikutsuroku" (イチクツロク) my phone suggests 位置靴6. That doesn't make a lot of sense because jisho.org breaks that into 位置 (place, position, rank) 靴 (shoes).
Unless the ツ (tsu) is a シ (shi) then my phone turns it into 市釧路区 which jisho.org declares nonsense.
My Japanese is sub-novice at this point, though I've tried to study it several times, lol. I got nothin'. I'll leave it to those who can do better.
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Post by nebulatech on Aug 31, 2020 1:03:28 GMT
Thanks again for the efforts!
I've gotten as far as digging out my Japanese 101 textbook from 20 years ago. I just haven't had the time to sit down and look over the characters. I quickly looked over it, but not in depth. Since its katakana except for two kanji on the side with the name, I should be able to find them in the book's tables. I will report on the fruits of my labor.
As a dorky aside, my son has a Zelda encyclopedia which has a section devoted to the language characters in various games. Some are similar to, if not actual, hiragana/katakana. My son and I had fun interpreting different signs in various Zelda games.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 31, 2020 1:21:31 GMT
I'm not convinced it's two separate kanji. Could be one, and if it is, it looks a lot like 様 and I'm going to go with that because one reading is "sama" which is an honorific. Charles Gordon Shelly-sama; an elevated way of saying "Mr. Charles Gordon Shelly"
Which now raises the question: Who is/was Mr. Shelly/Shelley/Sherry/[alternative spelling]? Google is not helping.
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Post by nebulatech on Aug 31, 2020 1:53:35 GMT
I bought the sword on ebay. The seller, only after it was delivered, emailed me and made some nebulous comments about having not spent time going through his grandpa's things until after he died. Not sure why, and it was unsolicited.
Anyway, I did do some obituary searching, and may found a match to a deceased war vet. It's a Charles Shelly, but not Gordon. The Charles Gordon Shelly I found died in 1931. Both of these Charles Shelly's were buried in Pennsylvania and may be related. If the sword is a WW2 sword, how could it be linked to the Gordon Shelly who died in 1931?
I plan to reach out to the seller. He seemed like a nice guy. One other thing to mention, the seller stated in his listing that the sword was "definitely older than WW2."
I feel like the experts here in this community reject that claim. Oh missing pieces, where are you?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 31, 2020 5:02:26 GMT
Hmm, interesting...
Beyond my realm, so I'll defer to the others.
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Post by Verity on Aug 31, 2020 14:19:01 GMT
I suppose it is "possible" to be older than WWII but unlikely. Sword making in Japan was EXTREMELY limited between the Meiji restoration and WWII simply due to the fall of the samurai and the ban of civilians carrying swords.
While smiths did practice their crafts at that time it was very rare and we don't see many specimens during that period. They are out there but rare.
In wartime of WWII we saw once again a marginal increase in smiths' activities to support the war efforts.
Based on the hallmarks of your blade though, there is NO way it dates to pre-Meiji period. Given the above is what caused the immediate target to WWII era.
I suppose it COULD be earlier in the 1900's but not much.
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Post by nebulatech on Aug 31, 2020 22:17:06 GMT
Verity, I'm sure you're right. I reached out to the seller to see if there is any back story. I'll share my findings. It's just nice to know the history. Thanks again to randomnobody for spending time on this.
On another note, I will be on the lookout for a tanto or wakasashi that won't be wasted if I totally mess up polishing it. No rush though.
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Post by Verity on Aug 31, 2020 22:21:24 GMT
Verity, I'm sure you're right. I reached out to the seller to see if there is any back story. I'll share my findings. It's just nice to know the history. Thanks again to randomnobody for spending time on this. On another note, I will be on the lookout for a tanto or wakasashi that won't be wasted if I totally mess up polishing it. No rush though. sounds good! Also, again, the one constant in nihonto is that it is a "rule of exceptions". To example just this phenomenon: I found out some SHOCKING news on my mystery wakizashi that BOTH you and I had placed as Shinto period. I could not have been more wrong, but also for good reason did we suspect that period. (If you wish to read more it is here)
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Post by nebulatech on Sept 1, 2020 18:08:39 GMT
Hi Verity, I like your sword collection. Nice find when you met with Konno-san! Lucky for you! I don't expect such luck from my blade. No signs of it being cut down as far as I can tell.
Regarding my blade, I heard back from the seller. His grandfather passed while the seller was on duty in Iraq. The sword was apparently a gift to his grandfather after his grandfather was injured by a grenade in battle. His name wasn't anything like Charles Gordon Shelly, so I'm afraid this story has reached a dead end for now.
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