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Post by nath on Aug 26, 2020 0:03:21 GMT
So I have a moat sale blade I bought directly from Albion maybe ten years ago. I’m getting back into these kinda of projects and am trying to figure out how to finish it. I believe this is the same blade that’s used on the Norman and Senlac. So at the same time I snagged a bronze favored pommel. It seems to be the same one used on the Count. I originally never planned to combine these two but I have recently acquired the guard from from a Balaur arms sword and I actually think the combination could look very nice.
My question is about balance and weight. I had assumed this pommel would be too large but the total weight of blade, guard, and pommel is only 2.58lb which seems in line with the Norman and Senlac but maybe on the heavier side. I don’t want to throw off the dynamics of this blade by putting a huge pommel on it. One alternative would be to hand file the facets down, making it a more simple disk pommel.
How much flexibility is there in choosing a pommel for a given blade? Albion seems to use the same blade with several models implying that there’s some give and take in choosing pommel weight. But just how much flexibility is there?
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Post by illustry on Aug 26, 2020 13:01:32 GMT
Pommel weights run the gamut and it could be said that some of this is a matter of taste. A heavier pommel will tend to move the forward pivot point towards the tip, which could be good. Too heavy and you make the overall weight too much, and even if it provides for good balance, will be a slow sword with a lot of inertia. Also not necesarily a bad thing depending on intended use (cavalry?). Ideally, what you want to do is check vibration notes. Fit the pommel, hit the flat of it with your palm, and you should see a dead spot on the grip, close to the guard, where your index finger might sit. If it is not at or near this spot, you will feel the impact of every cut in a bad way. Note you will see another dead spot about 25% from the tip which will be your center of percussion, another node (dead spot). But even that said - judging by historical examples, there is no single "right answer". It sounds like the pommel you have is fine. Albion mix/matches pommels on their models to a degree, anyways, so it is probably of acceptable weight.
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Post by nath on Aug 26, 2020 13:29:13 GMT
That all makes sense. It seems like this pommel would be acceptable but I’m not sure it would be ideal. I’m really not an expert at all with sword dynamics but it seems to me that the center of percussion is a little too close to the hilt for this kind of blade. I don’t know if a heavier pommel tends to pull back the COP or not. It does seem to make a huge difference when gently dropping the edge into a tree stump whether or not there’s a pommel at all in how the blade bites and where along the edge it does so best. So I’m curious what a super light pommel would do. This makes me very curious about some migration era swords that had organic hilts. I’d assume they’d be lighter weight with a more forward balance. Perhaps that would also move the cop closer to the point?
I suppose an ideal scenario would be some way to try out multiple pommel weights on a blade until you find the properties you desire. My limited experience with later era cavalry swords indicates they have very blade oriented balance but that may not be reflective of medieval cavalry swords.
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Post by illustry on Aug 26, 2020 14:14:19 GMT
nath, I believe a heavier pommel is going to pull back the COP a little, and move the forward pivot point up. Think of the mass distribution on a thrusting, pointy blade, where much of the mass is toward the hilt. These have COPs closer to the guard and a forward pivot point that allows the tip to track well in a thrust. You might get some weight (in the form of another cheap pommel, or fishing weight, piece of lead etc) and duct tape or clamp to the end of the tang til you find something that works well in your tests. That's what I would do.
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Post by nath on Aug 26, 2020 14:57:43 GMT
Thanks illustry,
I just glanced at your posts and am jealous of your previous projects.
The weights idea sounds interesting. I could be wrong but I think I remember some reference in the past to Angus Trim having some kind of rig to do something very similar. I imagine you could learn a lot if you could make adjustable but semipermanent pommels. Perhaps a series of disks that stacked onto the tang with a threaded nut. That could probably be done with large washers for most threaded blades like the hanwei tinkers.
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Post by illustry on Aug 26, 2020 15:13:39 GMT
Haha, thanks nath. Projects like blade shaping, sharpening, grip wrapping have kept my interest going when I don't have the budget for something new. Yes, I've seen that article you mention. A slidable clamp is neat... duct tape and big washers as weight are cheap and do the job too. You can wrap it a bunch w/ the duct tape both to keep the weight/washers very secure as well as give you something to hold on to: "duct tape grip wrap".
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