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Post by nmkendra on Jul 21, 2020 15:47:04 GMT
Hello All, I originally posted on the Beginner thread, and a helpful member suggested that I re-post here... I'm a move-manager, and the family I'm working for has a sword we can't seem to identify. We think it’s European. The blade features fine engraving on about 50% of the length on both sides (different designs) and along the edge/spine (leaf/vine design). The scabbard is in good condition. We see no stamps/makers marks. Not even at the very top of the blade where it meets the guard. It has suffered some damage (one branch from the hilt has broken off). I hope these photos are helpful but let me know if I need to upload more/different:
Would you folks be so kind as to give me your thoughts on what it might be? Many thanks in advance,
-Kendra
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jul 23, 2020 14:13:59 GMT
This is one for our resident experts, it's not ringing any bells with me.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 23, 2020 14:43:13 GMT
I wish knew more about sabers. I can tell from the photos that it's a high quality presentation or parade sword. You can see the etchings and spine details are very good, even with the age and corrosion. Definitely not a cheap reproduction. But what type, era, and country of origin, I really don't have a clue. Not my specialty.
I would have thought some of our HEMA guys would have chimed in by now.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 23, 2020 14:51:06 GMT
Hello All, I originally posted on the Beginner thread, and a helpful member suggested that I re-post here... I'm a move-manager, and the family I'm working for has a sword we can't seem to identify. We think it’s European. The blade features fine engraving on about 50% of the length on both sides (different designs) and along the edge/spine (leaf/vine design). The scabbard is in good condition. We see no stamps/makers marks. Not even at the very top of the blade where it meets the guard. It has suffered some damage (one branch from the hilt has broken off). I hope these photos are helpful but let me know if I need to upload more/different:
Would you folks be so kind as to give me your thoughts on what it might be? Many thanks in advance,
-Kendra
A few full sword pic of the all of the saber would be useful. How long is the blade? It has the look of a french light cavalry officer saber. The top bar of the 3 bar half basket guard has been broken off. It is of the Napoleonic era 1792-1820; generically model overlap Napoleons presence. Unmarked it is probably a custom made individually contracted sword. Many come from Solingen. French syndicate smithies signed a contract that permitted them to privately sell up to 15% of their annual output, so it could still be from Klingenthal. Value, without provenence will be low, with the broken guard.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jul 23, 2020 16:00:09 GMT
It looks like the AN XI for Officers but I am quite sure that a. it was made in Solingen and b. the blade type, like this Wilkinson spear point design and the start of the fuller, points in a general German direction. Another item is the flat guillon, which is atypical of the French models. The problem is two fold here: Many nations from Spain up to Sweden had at one time a variant regulation model based on the AN XI and this one is an Officers model which complicates things even further as these gentlemen could order privately and had the right to, to some extend, defy regulations. All in all, at the moment, I am in favour of a German connection. Problem is: which state? Also, let's not forget Italy and Denmark. There is the Danish M1808 Dragoon which has the flat guillon, the only thing to go on for now. What you have may be an Officers variant of same. The design and execution of the etch point to around 1800-1810 with its mix of stencil and hand etching typical for Solingen around that time. Just to indicate the problem: Here is a BRITISH Officer gone wild. French AN XI style hilt, pipe back blade and P1796 Light Cavalry scabbard! Must have been one of them hippies. Both images courtesy of: www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/galerie/lange_seitenwaffen-1.html
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 24, 2020 4:18:08 GMT
I didn't open all the swords apparently as the last said "full" on it.
This is a bastard, non regulated officers field piece. The quillon does probably indicate a german manufacture. However the use of a diamond langet is characteristic of a french affiliation. (grrrr). The blade is more characteristic of the British 1821 type as to origin, but Solingen produced these copiously as of 1822.
When in doubt these get offered up as "continental" sabers; place undetermined.
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Post by nmkendra on Jul 27, 2020 0:08:07 GMT
It looks like the AN XI for Officers but I am quite sure that a. it was made in Solingen and b. the blade type, like this Wilkinson spear point design and the start of the fuller, points in a general German direction. Another item is the flat guillon, which is atypical of the French models. The problem is two fold here: Many nations from Spain up to Sweden had at one time a variant regulation model based on the AN XI and this one is an Officers model which complicates things even further as these gentlemen could order privately and had the right to, to some extend, defy regulations. All in all, at the moment, I am in favour of a German connection. Problem is: which state? Also, let's not forget Italy and Denmark. There is the Danish M1808 Dragoon which has the flat guillon, the only thing to go on for now. What you have may be an Officers variant of same. The design and execution of the etch point to around 1800-1810 with its mix of stencil and hand etching typical for Solingen around that time. Just to indicate the problem: Here is a BRITISH Officer gone wild. French AN XI style hilt, pipe back blade and P1796 Light Cavalry scabbard! Must have been one of them hippies. Both images courtesy of: www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/galerie/lange_seitenwaffen-1.htmlThank you. Hippies - I love that. I was also thinking it's perhaps a Franken-sword! I really appreciate your input and assistance.
-Kendra
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Post by nmkendra on Jul 27, 2020 0:12:32 GMT
I didn't open all the swords apparently as the last said "full" on it. This is a bastard, non regulated officers field piece. The quillon does probably indicate a german manufacture. However the use of a diamond langet is characteristic of a french affiliation. (grrrr). The blade is more characteristic of the British 1821 type as to origin, but Solingen produced these copiously as of 1822. When in doubt these get offered up as "continental" sabers; place undetermined. Thanks Dave. I really appreciate your expert review. Even as a total sword novice I was getting the feeling it was some sort of "confused" piece. A Franken-sword! And then the damage. But always better to ask and give my clients as much information as possible. Worst mistake would be to undervalue a precious thing out of ignorance.
Maybe someone will enjoy it because it's so odd. A sword only a mother could love???
Thanks again,
-Kendra
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