|
Post by tsmspace on Jun 29, 2020 15:54:42 GMT
some people go saying that cold steel uses windlass blades,.
does that mean windlass blades are as good at cutting at cold steel??
|
|
|
Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 29, 2020 16:01:48 GMT
For those same model of swords, comparable. Depends on how the edge is done.
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Jun 30, 2020 5:31:55 GMT
Yeah, depends on the model and how it's sharpened. Cold Steel factory sharpening is usually quite good if workmanlike, whereas most Windlass swords don't come sharp from the factory so there's a lot of individual variation on that side of the comparison. They use the same or directly comparable materials, so there's no real difference in that regard. The only real differences are in the exact designs produced by each company, and these vary a lot within each company...
Put short, when sharpened in a similar way, similar models from both brands (e.g. their Shamshirs) perform similarly.
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jul 1, 2020 3:41:50 GMT
Yeah, depends on the model and how it's sharpened. Cold Steel factory sharpening is usually quite good if workmanlike, whereas most Windlass swords don't come sharp from the factory so there's a lot of individual variation on that side of the comparison. They use the same or directly comparable materials, so there's no real difference in that regard. The only real differences are in the exact designs produced by each company, and these vary a lot within each company... Put short, when sharpened in a similar way, similar models from both brands (e.g. their Shamshirs) perform similarly. right, so I've done all my own sharpening with a few exceptions where it's already sharp. That means that the quality of the sharpening is beginner, but fairly consistent. I have used plenty of pre-sharpened blades in my life besides swords, though. (never bought a knife that wasn't already sharpened,,,, I HAVE sharpened paint scrapers before, which is a great add in to the topic of blade quality, because they get sharp but don't really stay sharp,, they stay a sharpness, but not paper cutting, and are generally most sharp overall when left square imo). some of my swords just don't stay that razor kind of sharp. you can "put an edge on them", but the edge is not functional during the first use, it's destroyed during the use and before it works. Their edge doesn't really cut paper, but will ALWAYS cut milk jugs. soda bottles take work and knowing that specific blade pretty well, but eventually work. It doesn't really help to try to continuously sharpen them, just letting them dull and figuring out how to use it works best. but both windlass I have are on the high end of that "doesn't get as sharp" spectrum, I would say it is on par with or perhaps outperforms some of my (fairly modern) cheap knives. ( it's not the sharpest swords I have, I have some cheap katanas that are unquestionably better) I don't think my universal swords or weapon edge sword is bad, I am open to the argument that the choice in metallurgy is a better weapon overall, and that swords are for soft material on an opponent so they don't require the same edge to work, while making them "better" would make them unavailable because they broke. ,,,, ON the other hand, maybe windlass is just better. It will not break either, and will be sharper. It is possible that they are just more intent on creating useful sharps and over time figured out a metal that's better, while the others just kept going with one that was just fine and met the specs. Their offering does appear to be more centered around testing and tailoring to a specific blade capability *(thus the non-historical distal tapers) while missing the mark on the "for looks collectors" market. I will speak to the beauty of my universal swords sword and my weapon edge sword. The windlass swords have that "you might call me stupid but wait till you see me work" look about them. Like,,, a gumball that will embarrass you later. They work TOO well if you want it to be difficult to chop bottles. You jump straight to the heavy gatorade. that said, , , I am considering cold steel products. I have some recommendations by now to play with them. Someone pointed me to where some are inexpensive. The government is giving me free money.... My real question is,, if I bought a relic sword (like, a real sword,,, for example, an 1800's saber) , and it was a pretty good sword (I know that there was still cheap and expensive swords),,, what would it be sharp like?>?? Would it be sharp like cold-steel? (I do mean if sharpened like that, like, will the edge be functional if you put one on it,, Of course you can choose not to sharpen it or such, I mean assuming the blades are sharpened exactly the same, the cold-steel and the relic) ,,,, or would it be sharp like a universal sword??? Universal swords certainly GET sharp, but one bottle pretty much dulls them back to "their sharpness" as I am calling it. I realize that plastic is actually a pretty tough material when you measure against many materials, and that because they are light, they are probably tougher to cut than many historical targets. Fruit is like a marshmellow, my swords cut into wood just great, because the wood is stable and doesn't have the same "surface tension", I have no doubt that if I hit someone with the swords, they would be damaged pretty bad. through bone??? maybe not, though, unless I were pretty good or really pretty powerful. I'm still waiting on my zombie tools, which I ordered a billion years ago in window-shopping years, and don't know how it compares, although I'm confident it will at a minimum rival windlass and outperform the other replicas, and perhaps will have the potential to rival a cheap katana, but perhaps not. I mean everyone here will comment that I could choose to match the bevel of a cheap katana on some other sword, but I've done it already, and it's a nogo, the steel in a cheap katana is a "different steel", and holds a better edge. (different temper is still a "different steel" for sake of that sentence) These other steels just fall away when I try to do the same thing.
|
|
Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
|
Post by Zen_Hydra on Jul 1, 2020 12:55:07 GMT
Are you asking if an antique modern-era military sabre will hold an edge? If so, the answer is almost certainly yes (there are always exceptions, but for the most part military swords were made for fighting, especially trooper variants). An antique military sword is almost always going to be superior to a modern reproduction. The vast majority of modern reproductions are churned out by Indian and Chinese sword producers who have little interest in matching the performance and quality of the weapons they are superficially emulating. They make swords to look good on display, or as part of a costume. To get a high quality reproduction, you are going to have to work with someone like www.szablapolska.com/An antique in usable condition is also an option, but you have to be willing to put in the work of finding one in a style you desire, at a reasonable price, while avoiding the many fraudulent artificially-aged reproductions being passed off as antiques.
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jul 1, 2020 16:21:36 GMT
Are you asking if an antique modern-era military sabre will hold an edge? If so, the answer is almost certainly yes (there are always exceptions, but for the most part military swords were made for fighting, especially trooper variants). An antique military sword is almost always going to be superior to a modern reproduction. The vast majority of modern reproductions are churned out by Indian and Chinese sword producers who have little interest in matching the performance and quality of the weapons they are superficially emulating. They make swords to look good on display, or as part of a costume. To get a high quality reproduction, you are going to have to work with someone like www.szablapolska.com/An antique in usable condition is also an option, but you have to be willing to put in the work of finding one in a style you desire, at a reasonable price, while avoiding the many fraudulent artificially-aged reproductions being passed off as antiques. I wonder specifically how good was the edge, though. like, what is it's equal? Cold steel? I understand you are saying szablapolska but I can't experience one of those. I can experience windlass, cold steel, something like that, production and warehouse stock.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jul 1, 2020 18:41:21 GMT
It’s not possible to make a blanket statement as to whether antiques were better or worse. I have only information commencing with mostly the 19th century but judging from paintings of earlier times sword breakage existed before then. The first in depth information I’ve come across is with the Russian swords during the Crimean War when the Brits commented on the softness of the Russian swords. They were notorious for bending. Throughout the 19th century the British swords broke and fewer bent. During the second half of the century there are many reports on the bayonets bending. In some cases it was described as cork screwing. The sword bayonet fared less well. The navy had cutlasses that were subject to bending. In the case of enlisted men that drew whatever the government provided for them, they had little say so in the matter. The design in all of the above cases was good, the problem lay with corrupt suppliers and politicians. There was a big problem with sabres not holding an edge. The saying went sharpen today and dull tomorrow. This was largely due to the steel scabbards and daily conditions and mostly troopers here. The officers fared better as they purchased their kit and had some choice within limits. Tailor swords were OK for dress, parades, garrison duty and such but could not be depended on in combat. There were reputable companies and Wilkinson was amongst them. But even their swords were not immune to failing. Wilkinson did however replace their swords if broken . Their adversaries, not counting the continent, who would more accurately be described as warriors rather than soldiers did better as they were free of military regs. They carried swords in leather sheaths, some wood. They purchased their weapon and had some say so in the purchase such as weight, length, and off course if they detected something they didn’t like chose another. They maintained a sharp edge and gave better care. The Sudanese, for instance, could be seen sharpening their swords during a rest break. In short the quality varied greatly and the bad ones didn’t survive for us to examine. I’d say off hand they would be satisfied with the steel used by Windlass and CS. That is not to say they wouldn’t find fault in the sword as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by tsmspace on Jul 2, 2020 3:51:30 GMT
It’s not possible to make a blanket statement as to whether antiques were better or worse. I have only information commencing with mostly the 19th century but judging from paintings of earlier times sword breakage existed before then. The first in depth information I’ve come across is with the Russian swords during the Crimean War when the Brits commented on the softness of the Russian swords. They were notorious for bending. Throughout the 19th century the British swords broke and fewer bent. During the second half of the century there are many reports on the bayonets bending. In some cases it was described as cork screwing. The sword bayonet fared less well. The navy had cutlasses that were subject to bending. In the case of enlisted men that drew whatever the government provided for them, they had little say so in the matter. The design in all of the above cases was good, the problem lay with corrupt suppliers and politicians. There was a big problem with sabres not holding an edge. The saying went sharpen today and dull tomorrow. This was largely due to the steel scabbards and daily conditions and mostly troopers here. The officers fared better as they purchased their kit and had some choice within limits. Tailor swords were OK for dress, parades, garrison duty and such but could not be depended on in combat. There were reputable companies and Wilkinson was amongst them. But even their swords were not immune to failing. Wilkinson did however replace their swords if broken . Their adversaries, not counting the continent, who would more accurately be described as warriors rather than soldiers did better as they were free of military regs. They carried swords in leather sheaths, some wood. They purchased their weapon and had some say so in the purchase such as weight, length, and off course if they detected something they didn’t like chose another. They maintained a sharp edge and gave better care. The Sudanese, for instance, could be seen sharpening their swords during a rest break. In short the quality varied greatly and the bad ones didn’t survive for us to examine. I’d say off hand they would be satisfied with the steel used by Windlass and CS. That is not to say they wouldn’t find fault in the sword as a whole. In other words, Universal swords is probably better than the bad ones for edge retention, and not as good as the good ones, but overall much more consistent. (just my take on your response). Russian swords bending easily,,, but that DOESN'T mean they weren't sharp,,, I have some swords that are pretty sharp, but will bend easily. (one bad hit will bend them every time, but they stay super sharp and cut super clean. Ok,, not as sharp as premium products, but sharper than cheaper spring steel products without question ((looking at you balaur arms)) ,,, ) Does any experience with kingston arms?? is it a really good sharp sword??
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jul 2, 2020 12:50:02 GMT
In other words, Universal swords is probably better than the bad ones for edge retention, and not as good as the good ones, but overall much more consistent. (just my take on your response). Russian swords bending easily,,, but that DOESN'T mean they weren't sharp,,, I have some swords that are pretty sharp, but will bend easily. (one bad hit will bend them every time, but they stay super sharp and cut super clean. Ok,, not as sharp as premium products, but sharper than cheaper spring steel products without question ((looking at you balaur arms)) ,,, ) I have no idea of how Universal steel compares to an issued British sword, which could have varied from lot to lot, certainly from manufacturer to manufacturer. There appears to be a problem in that area. I dare say Universal is more consistent. The loss of edge on those issued swords was due to the sword’s abuse in the steel scabbards the military insisted on using. Do not confuse my use of the word ‘bend’ with ‘flex’. Those Russian swords would curl up, take a set, or whatever term you chose to use. I have no idea of their edge retention. Ditto for the British weapons that lacked proper temper. PS You take military or antique swords as a class that were uniform when in fact they varied all over the place and compare them to one modern vendor who puts out a uniform product so far as materials and construction is concerned. The largest variation you will find in a modern vendor’s product is their design of the sword they copy. The metal, heat treating, the tolerance or the lack thereof they chose to allow is more or less consistent. On one model they may get the handling down better than on another model. But I can expect the metal to be the same i.e. Windlass uses 1065 steel their older swords were 1055 and to go through the same tempering process. In the days of old a man used whatever the government chose and usually made by the lowest bidder, and hoped for the best. And most of the time the pieces were OK, most of the time, but not always.
|
|