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Post by tsmspace on Jun 19, 2020 9:39:51 GMT
Basic concepts: troll axe is real axe, troll axe is good axe, the ax-head is formed with a significantly less pronounced spread towards the blade, and the metal is not quenched to harden it however once the troll has the ax, they use a hammer to flatten the ax-head into a work-hardened edge. As the ax-head is hardened it also is pounded flatter, resulting in more spreading,, however this hardening and spreading happens simultaneously, resulting in cracks along the blade edge. This concept is presumed by me to be why fantasy axes are always portrayed with cracked blades. Axes also might be constructed of impressive size, in order to produce clean cuts in very large materials without the use of a saw, which would have been largely unavailable due to the difficulty in producing a reliable, lasting saw. (saws would have been popular close to manufacturing centers able to produce them frequently, but tools that would be made once to last many years would be more simple and heavy duty, neither of which makes a good saw that can be used over and over again for a long period of time and in many environments. an ax is very substantial and can take a lot of abuse and remain functional). Very heavy axes could be raised and dropped like a guillotine instead of swung like an axe, by being mounted on an unusually long handle with a square foot to keep the edge pointed. The ax could be planted on the foot, held upright, and then released to fall onto the material (such as a board), or also possibly held and forced down onto the material instead of simply dropped. the ax would be good even on medium sized materials, because the act of lifting and dropping would be easier to repeat many times a day (for example during a construction project) than swinging an ax, and would allow for more consistency which always benefits manufacturing and construction.   |
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Post by leviathansteak on Jun 19, 2020 10:22:11 GMT
Dropping an axe like that looks like a good way to cut your foot off
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jun 19, 2020 13:07:28 GMT
I always thought that monsters with cracked blades got them because they were monsters, therefore had no jobs or money, and scavenged the weapons from the refuse piles. The blades were representative of their lives- cast out and thought to be worthless. Whereas the heroes always had the perfectly crafted and well maintained equipment, also representative of their lives of wealth and worth. Maybe I was overthinking it.
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 20, 2020 2:59:28 GMT
I always thought that monsters with cracked blades got them because they were monsters, therefore had no jobs or money, and scavenged the weapons from the refuse piles. The blades were representative of their lives- cast out and thought to be worthless. Whereas the heroes always had the perfectly crafted and well maintained equipment, also representative of their lives of wealth and worth. Maybe I was overthinking it. yeah. you might be on to something.... |
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 20, 2020 3:11:03 GMT
Dropping an axe like that looks like a good way to cut your foot off I saw a huge axe with a square "pommel" that really looked to me like it was designed for exactly this technique. |
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 20, 2020 14:01:48 GMT
That doesn't sound like an efficient or safe tool.
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Scott
Member
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Post by Scott on Jun 20, 2020 15:22:45 GMT
Not sure how lifting and dropping this axe is easier than swinging an axe all day. Dropping would be less accurate and more likely to damage the edge. What you're after here is a side axe or hewing axe. Great for construction, still used today, safer than dropping a sharp tool and hoping it lands where you want it to...
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 20, 2020 18:29:53 GMT
Not sure how lifting and dropping this axe is easier than swinging an axe all day. Dropping would be less accurate and more likely to damage the edge. What you're after here is a side axe or hewing axe. Great for construction, still used today, safer than dropping a sharp tool and hoping it lands where you want it to... it has a square foot, so wherever it was in "tripod" stance is where it will fall. and hey, I don't know, but I've seen one before. |
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Post by howler on Jun 20, 2020 20:48:59 GMT
Monster axes (any weapon really...sword, club, spear, etc...) look rough & primitive because they fit the wielder of the tool. What would a beastly looking troll like brute really be doing with a clean, elegant, flawless, museum quality beauty in its mitts? Of course, it could be part of a collection/hoard, but NOT an EDC weapon.
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 20, 2020 21:34:03 GMT
Monster axes (any weapon really...sword, club, spear, etc...) look rough & primitive because they fit the wielder of the tool. What would a beastly looking troll like brute really be doing with a clean, elegant, flawless, museum quality beauty in its mitts? Of course, it could be part of a collection/hoard, but NOT an EDC weapon. It would probably be worn from use, monsters do everything with their weapon, it's their only possession. A monster rambling across a waste-land would do every task with their one possession, from terrorizing the peasantry to having arguments with larger monsters. but seriously, if you had an iron axe, and you were going to work-harden the edge to make it thinner and harder, it would probably crack like that from the spreading. you would be hammering away, but as a portion hardens, it wouldn't be able to spread nicely, so it would crack as a result. It would be one of those skills that if done properly, you could avoid or reduce the cracking (for example by hardening from the inside of the edge bevel towards the outside, in small cycles that gradually spread the material as it hardened it across), but you would want to keep making it more thin until it were no longer possible to make it any thinner and still stay together, so you would end up with the interior spreading more while the exterior had already been hardened by the hammer, which would make cracks in the skin of the metal, even if not all the way through it,, but right at the edge you would get cracks that did indeed happen through because its so thin. so it's less about a monster, and more about what would happen if you did make an iron axe and then try to work-harden it. |
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Post by howler on Jun 20, 2020 23:30:19 GMT
Monster axes (any weapon really...sword, club, spear, etc...) look rough & primitive because they fit the wielder of the tool. What would a beastly looking troll like brute really be doing with a clean, elegant, flawless, museum quality beauty in its mitts? Of course, it could be part of a collection/hoard, but NOT an EDC weapon. It would probably be worn from use, monsters do everything with their weapon, it's their only possession. A monster rambling across a waste-land would do every task with their one possession, from terrorizing the peasantry to having arguments with larger monsters. but seriously, if you had an iron axe, and you were going to work-harden the edge to make it thinner and harder, it would probably crack like that from the spreading. you would be hammering away, but as a portion hardens, it wouldn't be able to spread nicely, so it would crack as a result. It would be one of those skills that if done properly, you could avoid or reduce the cracking (for example by hardening from the inside of the edge bevel towards the outside, in small cycles that gradually spread the material as it hardened it across), but you would want to keep making it more thin until it were no longer possible to make it any thinner and still stay together, so you would end up with the interior spreading more while the exterior had already been hardened by the hammer, which would make cracks in the skin of the metal, even if not all the way through it,, but right at the edge you would get cracks that did indeed happen through because its so thin. so it's less about a monster, and more about what would happen if you did make an iron axe and then try to work-harden it. Probably true on the usually materially poor monsters, but there would probably be quasi wealthy ones who may have a stash of good stuff (hoarders, as I mentioned) hidden away to greedily covet (my PRECIOUS). The monsters are probably so monstrous that all bladed weaponry really need not be much more than a bashing club anyway, so the edge can be of secondary (or less) concern. |
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 21, 2020 0:09:14 GMT
It would probably be worn from use, monsters do everything with their weapon, it's their only possession. A monster rambling across a waste-land would do every task with their one possession, from terrorizing the peasantry to having arguments with larger monsters. but seriously, if you had an iron axe, and you were going to work-harden the edge to make it thinner and harder, it would probably crack like that from the spreading. you would be hammering away, but as a portion hardens, it wouldn't be able to spread nicely, so it would crack as a result. It would be one of those skills that if done properly, you could avoid or reduce the cracking (for example by hardening from the inside of the edge bevel towards the outside, in small cycles that gradually spread the material as it hardened it across), but you would want to keep making it more thin until it were no longer possible to make it any thinner and still stay together, so you would end up with the interior spreading more while the exterior had already been hardened by the hammer, which would make cracks in the skin of the metal, even if not all the way through it,, but right at the edge you would get cracks that did indeed happen through because its so thin. so it's less about a monster, and more about what would happen if you did make an iron axe and then try to work-harden it. Probably true on the usually materially poor monsters, but there would probably be quasi wealthy ones who may have a stash of good stuff (hoarders, as I mentioned) hidden away to greedily covet (my PRECIOUS). The monsters are probably so monstrous that all bladed weaponry really need not be much more than a bashing club anyway, so the edge can be of secondary (or less) concern. ah yes, that old,"""""""imagine what would happen to you if I hit you with a club this heavy,,, now imagine if that club was the same weight, but the front of it was an edge that was still under 1mm thick, and it was also uneven and toothy from damage. Now, imagine if I hit you with this club that has a toothy rough edge, and I'm big like this. Now imagine if I practiced until i can use this toothy blunt edge to take down a tree that's 4-6 inches thick in one swing. Now imagine trying to protect yourself with only the amount of metal and padding YOU can carry. Now try to imagine how what you are carrying is superior to what I am carrying in any way other than you outnumber me over 100 to 1, and just use arrows anyway. Now try to imagine that I am a legal citizen of this land, and do not lie, cheat or steal, and imagine that your entire army is nothing but people who say "you shouldn't leave it out", "they shoulda ran knowing that many guys were gonna", etc, and working for a king who is nothing but lies , cheating, and stealing, and that your whole army is ONLY HERE to steal from another king, and now you're here to tell me I have to die because you are afraid of what I learned how to do without being a threat to anyone. Now just imagine how I feel about these last words you offer me, while I still hold this club that you can't see respecting, and imagine that actually, you HAVE to kill me unless I kill you first. """"""""" |
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Post by howler on Jun 21, 2020 0:58:35 GMT
Probably true on the usually materially poor monsters, but there would probably be quasi wealthy ones who may have a stash of good stuff (hoarders, as I mentioned) hidden away to greedily covet (my PRECIOUS). The monsters are probably so monstrous that all bladed weaponry really need not be much more than a bashing club anyway, so the edge can be of secondary (or less) concern. ah yes, that old,"""""""imagine what would happen to you if I hit you with a club this heavy,,, now imagine if that club was the same weight, but the front of it was an edge that was still under 1mm thick, and it was also uneven and toothy from damage. Now, imagine if I hit you with this club that has a toothy rough edge, and I'm big like this. Now imagine if I practiced until i can use this toothy blunt edge to take down a tree that's 4-6 inches thick in one swing. Now imagine trying to protect yourself with only the amount of metal and padding YOU can carry. Now try to imagine how what you are carrying is superior to what I am carrying in any way other than you outnumber me over 100 to 1, and just use arrows anyway. Now try to imagine that I am a legal citizen of this land, and do not lie, cheat or steal, and imagine that your entire army is nothing but people who say "you shouldn't leave it out", "they shoulda ran knowing that many guys were gonna", etc, and working for a king who is nothing but lies , cheating, and stealing, and that your whole army is ONLY HERE to steal from another king, and now you're here to tell me I have to die because you are afraid of what I learned how to do without being a threat to anyone. Now just imagine how I feel about these last words you offer me, while I still hold this club that you can't see respecting, and imagine that actually, you HAVE to kill me unless I kill you first. """"""""" Really, the club would be enough to do the job, but, sure, I would not want to get hit with the edge. Important to consider that defense is a super important part of the equation. Good thing such a being does not exist. One would probably have to have the size and strength of the actor who played The Mountain in Game Of Thrones (I believe he set the world record in the dead lift) to wield such a tool that could chop 6" diameter trees down with one swing and (this is key) STILL be able to defend themselves because I'd put three holes in him by the time he finished that swing. You lost me on the second half of your post...something about armies, kings, good, evil, and you dying because you had an overweight axe in your hand instead of a weapon. |
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 21, 2020 2:34:14 GMT
ah yes, that old,"""""""imagine what would happen to you if I hit you with a club this heavy,,, now imagine if that club was the same weight, but the front of it was an edge that was still under 1mm thick, and it was also uneven and toothy from damage. Now, imagine if I hit you with this club that has a toothy rough edge, and I'm big like this. Now imagine if I practiced until i can use this toothy blunt edge to take down a tree that's 4-6 inches thick in one swing. Now imagine trying to protect yourself with only the amount of metal and padding YOU can carry. Now try to imagine how what you are carrying is superior to what I am carrying in any way other than you outnumber me over 100 to 1, and just use arrows anyway. Now try to imagine that I am a legal citizen of this land, and do not lie, cheat or steal, and imagine that your entire army is nothing but people who say "you shouldn't leave it out", "they shoulda ran knowing that many guys were gonna", etc, and working for a king who is nothing but lies , cheating, and stealing, and that your whole army is ONLY HERE to steal from another king, and now you're here to tell me I have to die because you are afraid of what I learned how to do without being a threat to anyone. Now just imagine how I feel about these last words you offer me, while I still hold this club that you can't see respecting, and imagine that actually, you HAVE to kill me unless I kill you first. """"""""" Really, the club would be enough to do the job, but, sure, I would not want to get hit with the edge. Important to consider that defense is a super important part of the equation. Good thing such a being does not exist. One would probably have to have the size and strength of the actor who played The Mountain in Game Of Thrones (I believe he set the world record in the dead lift) to wield such a tool that could chop 6" diameter trees down with one swing and (this is key) STILL be able to defend themselves because I'd put three holes in him by the time he finished that swing. You lost me on the second half of your post...something about armies, kings, good, evil, and you dying because you had an overweight axe in your hand instead of a weapon. the last half is where the troll calls the humans corrupt and dishonest, while he is the one who is honest and does not steal and lie. But, because the troll can see that the army is here and now they will kill him no matter what he does, because that's what armies do, they kill the animals out of the forest, he will fight even though it was never what he ever thought he would do. He is a troll, he minds his business, and doesn't participate in the politics of the human criminal empires. I'm not sure if you have ever heard these kind of "trolls are honest and men are liars" fantasies, but anyway, it's a common theme in many stories, where the truth is, the humans are the ones who lie, cheat and steal, while the ogres, trolls, orcs, goblins, and other beasts are just what happens when humans don't want to participate in the corruption, so they go and live other lives minding their own business away from the cities. THey are like hermits ,but they get big from working in the wilderness, they are able to see the intelligence in animals and communicate with them and earn their respect, they are ugly to humans because they don't wear fancy clothes or makeup (yes, makeup was already pretty common among males even by the roman empire,, males wearing makeup pretty much predates written history),, and importantly they don't have money, but the reason is is that they don't pass the "lie test", where before you can be on the team, you need to prove that you will do the crime the team is already up to. |
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Post by howler on Jun 21, 2020 2:41:39 GMT
Really, the club would be enough to do the job, but, sure, I would not want to get hit with the edge. Important to consider that defense is a super important part of the equation. Good thing such a being does not exist. One would probably have to have the size and strength of the actor who played The Mountain in Game Of Thrones (I believe he set the world record in the dead lift) to wield such a tool that could chop 6" diameter trees down with one swing and (this is key) STILL be able to defend themselves because I'd put three holes in him by the time he finished that swing. You lost me on the second half of your post...something about armies, kings, good, evil, and you dying because you had an overweight axe in your hand instead of a weapon. the last half is where the troll calls the humans corrupt and dishonest, while he is the one who is honest and does not steal and lie. But, because the troll can see that the army is here and now they will kill him no matter what he does, because that's what armies do, they kill the animals out of the forest, he will fight even though it was never what he ever thought he would do. He is a troll, he minds his business, and doesn't participate in the politics of the human criminal empires. Fortunately all interesting speculation, as Trolls do not exist. On that note, I think you would make a good story teller, as it sounds like you have some ideas that need to be put to paper and perhaps tailored to a book. |
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Post by tsmspace on Jun 21, 2020 2:54:47 GMT
the last half is where the troll calls the humans corrupt and dishonest, while he is the one who is honest and does not steal and lie. But, because the troll can see that the army is here and now they will kill him no matter what he does, because that's what armies do, they kill the animals out of the forest, he will fight even though it was never what he ever thought he would do. He is a troll, he minds his business, and doesn't participate in the politics of the human criminal empires. Fortunately all interesting speculation, as Trolls do not exist. On that note, I think you would make a good story teller, as it sounds like you have some ideas that need to be put to paper and perhaps tailored to a book. no, that's what I'm saying, these aren't my ideas. They are existing story ideas. These are themes I grew up with. I did not author these ideas, they are already written. |
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Post by howler on Jun 21, 2020 3:14:18 GMT
Fortunately all interesting speculation, as Trolls do not exist. On that note, I think you would make a good story teller, as it sounds like you have some ideas that need to be put to paper and perhaps tailored to a book. no, that's what I'm saying, these aren't my ideas. They are existing story ideas. These are themes I grew up with. I did not author these ideas, they are already written. You need to collect them and put your unique spin on them, a collected work called Troll Stories, fact or fiction. You will earn the title (along with author) of "Troll Whisperer". |
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