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Post by tarheel7734 on Jun 17, 2020 10:39:48 GMT
Why do people cut stuff they shouldn't with a sword then complain after said sword chips or bends or doesn't cut like movies show? You see it all the time all over youtube and the internet. Why don't people research things before doing said things or get training? Maybe it is because its how I was raised or my firearms background but I was always taught not to use something unless I was taught the basics dos and don'ts. Now I am not talking the intentional destructive testing just the basic people swinging the swords then complaining it did not hold up cause they abused the sword.
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 17, 2020 11:40:49 GMT
Simple: People see crazy things on TV and in movies, and expect reality to match. They'll "research" to the extent of a few YouTube videos of random people doing similar things, even Cold Steel's official marketing videos are guilty, and expect any sword to be capable of the same.
People don't want to be told they can't do something they saw someone else do. God forbid someone use the word "dangerous" or "unsafe" to them, now they HAVE to prove you wrong. Ego being what it is.
I admit, I abused my share of swords in my own early days, and it's a wonder I never broke one. Bent one, sure, burying it vertically into the trunk of a bush I'd just taken all the limbs off of, like an idiot. Still has a buckle midway down where the curve (twas a katana) kinda skips a bit before picking up again. Really a wonder it didn't break.
But swords "back then" (15-20 years ago) were very different to swords we know now. They were, shall we say, less refined. Heavy, thick, and we liked it that way. They took punishment no sword should ever see and kept trucking. Well, the ones that survived the first hit. I'm not talking about the rat-tail decorative swords, but the early "real" and "functional" swords.
Swords today are made with actual historic technique and practice in mind, with actual taper and thinner overall geometries, etc. They handle and cut proper targets very well. Unfortunately, people still seem to think of the old "beater" swords and expect every sword to do what they (sometimes) could do.
Some folk are just generally ignorant and happy that way. No fixing that, sadly.
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Post by tarheel7734 on Jun 17, 2020 12:39:10 GMT
Simple: People see crazy things on TV and in movies, and expect reality to match. They'll "research" to the extent of a few YouTube videos of random people doing similar things, even Cold Steel's official marketing videos are guilty, and expect any sword to be capable of the same. People don't want to be told they can't do something they saw someone else do. God forbid someone use the word "dangerous" or "unsafe" to them, now they HAVE to prove you wrong. Ego being what it is. I admit, I abused my share of swords in my own early days, and it's a wonder I never broke one. Bent one, sure, burying it vertically into the trunk of a bush I'd just taken all the limbs off of, like an idiot. Still has a buckle midway down where the curve (twas a katana) kinda skips a bit before picking up again. Really a wonder it didn't break. But swords "back then" (15-20 years ago) were very different to swords we know now. They were, shall we say, less refined. Heavy, thick, and we liked it that way. They took punishment no sword should ever see and kept trucking. Well, the ones that survived the first hit. I'm not talking about the rat-tail decorative swords, but the early "real" and "functional" swords. Swords today are made with actual historic technique and practice in mind, with actual taper and thinner overall geometries, etc. They handle and cut proper targets very well. Unfortunately, people still seem to think of the old "beater" swords and expect every sword to do what they (sometimes) could do. Some folk are just generally ignorant and happy that way. No fixing that, sadly .I started with swords back when CAS Iberia and Bugei were about the only semi authentic made sword other than real Japanese ones. This was in late 90s. Still I never abused them like that.But then again I was serving in the army. I guess I did have a cheap sword when I was a teen but still never abused it even though it was cheap. It was back in the Highlander days lol. I would just work katas and such and never really cut anything. My parents would have beat the crap out of me if I ever damaged any of my possessions even if it was something I purchased with my own money.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jun 17, 2020 12:47:19 GMT
Because as PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute".
People are inherently stupid. That is why we have emergency rooms at hospitals.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jun 17, 2020 13:22:16 GMT
What are you trying to imply? That Katanas don't cut anvils cleanly? Color me shocked! How do I get a refund on this...
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 17, 2020 17:55:01 GMT
What are you trying to imply? That Katanas don't cut anvils cleanly? Color me shocked! How do I get a refund on this... You might want this one........
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Post by MOK on Jun 17, 2020 20:31:54 GMT
Same reason people do anything they shouldn't. We're all born knowing nothing...
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Post by shepherd214 on Jun 18, 2020 4:54:50 GMT
What examples are you talking about? The term "abuse" gets thrown around alot.
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Post by tarheel7734 on Jun 18, 2020 10:45:13 GMT
What examples are you talking about? The term "abuse" gets thrown around alot. Well big ass cardboard tubes, trees and limbs, beer and soda cans are all some examples. People will spend money on a sword but dont spend money on proper tatami omote mats. Another example is using bamboo or other hard targets on swords not designed to cut hard targets.
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Post by shepherd214 on Jun 18, 2020 12:49:40 GMT
Some of those I wouldnt call abuse.
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Post by mrbadexample on Jun 18, 2020 13:23:40 GMT
What examples are you talking about? The term "abuse" gets thrown around alot. Well big ass cardboard tubes, trees and limbs, beer and soda cans are all some examples. People will spend money on a sword but dont spend money on proper tatami omote mats. Another example is using bamboo or other hard targets on swords not designed to cut hard targets. I actually cut bamboo a lot more than other targets. My neighbors put in a bamboo hedge, so it’s a plentiful, free resource for me. I prefer to cut it live though. That is much easier on a blade than cutting bamboo that has had a chance to dry out. There is still some risk, but you get good feedback on edge alignment and form. Mess up either, and you get a split instead of a clean cut. Worst I’ve seen from the living stuff is getting the blade bound up. The dry bamboo is more likely to damage the edge on a bad cut, but I’m not sure I’d call cutting it abusive. It’s a decent analog for bone, and most blades could expect contact with bone in use.
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Post by tarheel7734 on Jun 18, 2020 13:29:50 GMT
Well big ass cardboard tubes, trees and limbs, beer and soda cans are all some examples. People will spend money on a sword but dont spend money on proper tatami omote mats. Another example is using bamboo or other hard targets on swords not designed to cut hard targets. I actually cut bamboo a lot more than other targets. My neighbors put in a bamboo hedge, so it’s a plentiful, free resource for me. I prefer to cut it live though. That is much easier on a blade than cutting bamboo that has had a chance to dry out. There is still some risk, but you get good feedback on edge alignment and form. Mess up either, and you get a split instead of a clean cut. Worst I’ve seen from the living stuff is getting the blade bound up. The dry bamboo is more likely to damage the edge on a bad cut, but I’m not sure I’d call cutting it abusive. It’s a decent analog for bone, and most blades could expect contact with bone in use. Using a blade that is designed for said cutting yes it is not abusive, but just cutting bamboo with any sword and then complaining cause said sword chipped or what not because it was not truly designed for it was what I was getting at.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jun 18, 2020 19:55:40 GMT
What examples are you talking about? The term "abuse" gets thrown around alot. Well big ass cardboard tubes, trees and limbs, beer and soda cans are all some examples. People will spend money on a sword but dont spend money on proper tatami omote mats. Another example is using bamboo or other hard targets on swords not designed to cut hard targets. Swords weren't designed to cut tatami (though perhaps you're talking about modern swords, some of which certainly are designed solely for cutting tatami). Ancient swords (and modern swords that are meant to replicate the form and functionality of ancient swords) were designed to cut (and stab) people. In a great many cases, these people would have been wearing metal armor and wielding weapons made of wood and/or metal. It would have been a very common occurrence for swords to come into violent contact with this metal and wood. Swords and other weapons are recorded in historical documents as breaking, bending, chipping, and getting various other kinds of damage in fights, battles, or even murders. A sword that takes damage when cutting (or impacting into) a thick cardboard tube or fairly slim tree limb isn't what I would call a particularly good sword (though swords of that nature definitely existed in history).
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Post by howler on Jun 18, 2020 20:11:24 GMT
Same reason people do anything they shouldn't. We're all born knowing nothing... Or even more specifically "born knowing nothing but thinking we know everything".
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Post by pellius on Jun 19, 2020 4:00:19 GMT
When I was but a wee lad growing up out in the rural wilderness of Florida, my friends and I would often spend entire weekends exploring the woods and meadows, armed with cool looking sticks that we pretended to be swords. We hacked our way through many a marsh, briar field, and pine wood with our trusty makeshift sidearms.
While still quite young, maybe seven or eight years old, my dad carved me a truly awesome wooden arming sword out of a two-by-four. He made it in his wood working shop, and it was a thing of beauty. It was as real as a wooden sword could be, including a blade with a robust flattened diamond cross section. It was truly my prized possession
I slew many an imaginary monster with it, and blazed numerous trails. It would even cut through underbrush after a fashion; better than an old marble-dull stick, anyway.
For many months, I made lots of fond memories wielding my beloved sword. And one horrific one.
On a hot summer Saturday just a bit after lunch, my friend and I found ourselves fighting a particularly menacing-looking bush with a decidedly evil disposition. My buddy kept its attention while I slipped behind it to cut off its vile fire-breathing head. I caught it right on its scaly green neck and... my sword broke right in two. It was truly devastating.
I obviously shouldn’t have been out repeatedly chopping things with my wooden sword like object. After all, it was probably intended to be more of a functional decoration when dad made it. But it honestly just didn’t occur to me that it might break.
I suspect something similar happens with much older boys when they finally get their hands on a sword. What with all the dragons having been vanquished long ago, tree limbs and mailing tubes must sometimes suffice.
As a much older little boy myself, I still miss that wooden sword dad made for me. I would have very much liked to pass it on to my own son. It’s destruction was not without benefit, though, as I have been quite cautious in wielding and cutting with the “real” swords I currently possess. Eventually I’ll pass them on instead.
🙂
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jun 19, 2020 13:02:16 GMT
Swords are meat cutter, that is what they were designed to do. There is no debate on that. However, tatami, bamboo, leather wrapped grass, etc. were designed to be ANALOGS to the meat mechs that swords were designed to kill. In that respect, they are legitimate targets and were, and are, used to test blades after manufacturing and for training purposes. Any sword that fails during a legitimate test on one of these targets is not a good blade. I would add soda bottles to this list, even though they aren't "historic" targets, they have been proven to be safe through tens of thousands of successful tests. "Abuse" is using the sword on a target that does not make a good analog of a meat mech. Targets such as these are tree limbs, steel barrels, glass, 2x4's, ice, bricks, anvils, hot gun barrels, and so forth. These targets do not simulate the density and composition of a meat mech, and therefore they can do serious damage to a sword. If the sword is broken or chipped, it proves nothing other than abuse, and anything can break if it is abused. But with that said, it sure seems to be a hard-wired human need to see just how far we can push something before it breaks. We have some sort of cosmic need to go faster, hit harder, jump higher, or otherwise push the limits. I can't explain it other than to say it's just how we are. Especially dudes. I hope that clears it up a bit. ...And there are still plenty enough dragons in the world. You just have to forget what you know, and then you can see them...
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jun 20, 2020 6:09:55 GMT
All good points, but there just isn't any way that swords were designed with the idea that they would only ever encounter meat and bone. Perhaps swords were expected to take some kind of damage when hitting wood or metal weapons and armor, but the fact remains that swords were still expected to hit metal and wood. Some of the more extreme testing (say hitting cinder blocks) could definitely count as abuse, but I don't think hitting metal and wood targets should. Though anyone hitting metal and wood should do so with the knowledge that they have a good chance of damaging or breaking their swords.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 20, 2020 8:05:13 GMT
All good points, but there just isn't any way that swords were designed with the idea that they would only ever encounter meat and bone. Perhaps swords were expected to take some kind of damage when hitting wood or metal weapons and armor, but the fact remains that swords were still expected to hit metal and wood. Some of the more extreme testing (say hitting cinder blocks) could definitely count as abuse, but I don't think hitting metal and wood targets should. Though anyone hitting metal and wood should do so with the knowledge that they have a good chance of damaging or breaking their swords. They were also expected to be replaced after hitting the wrong objects.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 20, 2020 8:06:46 GMT
When I was but a wee lad growing up out in the rural wilderness of Florida, my friends and I would often spend entire weekends exploring the woods and meadows, armed with cool looking sticks that we pretended to be swords. We hacked our way through many a marsh, briar field, and pine wood with our trusty makeshift sidearms. While still quite young, maybe seven or eight years old, my dad carved me a truly awesome wooden arming sword out of a two-by-four. He made it in his wood working shop, and it was a thing of beauty. It was as real as a wooden sword could be, including a blade with a robust flattened diamond cross section. It was truly my prized possession I slew many an imaginary monster with it, and blazed numerous trails. It would even cut through underbrush after a fashion; better than an old marble-dull stick, anyway. For many months, I made lots of fond memories wielding my beloved sword. And one horrific one. On a hot summer Saturday just a bit after lunch, my friend and I found ourselves fighting a particularly menacing-looking bush with a decidedly evil disposition. My buddy kept its attention while I slipped behind it to cut off its vile fire-breathing head. I caught it right on its scaly green neck and... my sword broke right in two. It was truly devastating. I obviously shouldn’t have been out repeatedly chopping things with my wooden sword like object. After all, it was probably intended to be more of a functional decoration when dad made it. But it honestly just didn’t occur to me that it might break. I suspect something similar happens with much older boys when they finally get their hands on a sword. What with all the dragons having been vanquished long ago, tree limbs and mailing tubes must sometimes suffice. As a much older little boy myself, I still miss that wooden sword dad made for me. I would have very much liked to pass it on to my own son. It’s destruction was not without benefit, though, as I have been quite cautious in wielding and cutting with the “real” swords I currently possess. Eventually I’ll pass them on instead. 🙂 Brought tears to my eyes. That wooden sword will live on in your heart.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 20, 2020 13:32:30 GMT
When I was but a wee lad growing up out in the rural wilderness of Florida, my friends and I would often spend entire weekends exploring the woods and meadows, armed with cool looking sticks that we pretended to be swords. We hacked our way through many a marsh, briar field, and pine wood with our trusty makeshift sidearms. While still quite young, maybe seven or eight years old, my dad carved me a truly awesome wooden arming sword out of a two-by-four. He made it in his wood working shop, and it was a thing of beauty. It was as real as a wooden sword could be, including a blade with a robust flattened diamond cross section. It was truly my prized possession I slew many an imaginary monster with it, and blazed numerous trails. It would even cut through underbrush after a fashion; better than an old marble-dull stick, anyway. For many months, I made lots of fond memories wielding my beloved sword. And one horrific one. On a hot summer Saturday just a bit after lunch, my friend and I found ourselves fighting a particularly menacing-looking bush with a decidedly evil disposition. My buddy kept its attention while I slipped behind it to cut off its vile fire-breathing head. I caught it right on its scaly green neck and... my sword broke right in two. It was truly devastating. I obviously shouldn’t have been out repeatedly chopping things with my wooden sword like object. After all, it was probably intended to be more of a functional decoration when dad made it. But it honestly just didn’t occur to me that it might break. I suspect something similar happens with much older boys when they finally get their hands on a sword. What with all the dragons having been vanquished long ago, tree limbs and mailing tubes must sometimes suffice. As a much older little boy myself, I still miss that wooden sword dad made for me. I would have very much liked to pass it on to my own son. It’s destruction was not without benefit, though, as I have been quite cautious in wielding and cutting with the “real” swords I currently possess. Eventually I’ll pass them on instead. 🙂 You brought back some memories there Pellius. At first you confused me with your rural wilderness and adventures. My most vivid memories Florida are that of Palmetto trees and brush, mostly the brush. It was so thick in areas that I could not see the ground and it was rattle snake heaven. I dared not go trumping through that stuff. I would cut a limb from Palmetto tree and curve a crude sword from that, my access to hard wood was limited as were tools. I did several, never broke one, they just disappeared. I suspect mom threw them out when I wasn’t around. We had our share of cotton mouths also, the glades were just a stone throw away and that’s I had my first introduction into firearms. That’s my most vivid memories of Florida that I’ll cherish, but ya the central part is hilly and the northern part had its share of pine trees and in both areas I felt safe in the field.
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