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Post by Dandelion on May 14, 2020 14:39:15 GMT
I have a question to do-it-yourselfers and the experts, please: would a standard home "blowtorch" (i hope this is the correct term) be good enough for getting a tang end hot enough to peen/repeen it? This one here is described working up to 1400 degrees celsius. Feedback appreciated, thank you! Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 15:19:21 GMT
Generally, no. You need something rather powerful. Ideally, you want it to reach the proper temperature after seconds, not many minutes. You need MAPP gas as well, not propane or butane.
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Post by Dandelion on May 14, 2020 15:45:45 GMT
Sh*t. Thank you anyway; i feared so.
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Post by leviathansteak on May 15, 2020 3:01:18 GMT
I just finished cold peening a diy sword im working on yesterday. Seems to be a successful job so far.
I softened the end of the tang first with a butane torch by heating to red hot and letting it cool slowly. Did it twice just to be sure.
So yea if youre cold peening, it seems just a butane torch will do
I should clarify that i heated the tang without the pommel fitted.
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Post by libra on May 15, 2020 14:41:58 GMT
It is possible! Did it 3 times with that kind of torch. But to be honest: it's pain in the ass... Too consuming of time and with the pommel already in place, it devours the heat so much, you ask yourself if that flame is just a show effect. From there on I did it the Brotherbanzai-way with the TIG welder. (And don't trust these "promised" temperatures. It remebers me of my internet provider. "Up to" 100mbit )
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Post by Dandelion on May 15, 2020 22:13:22 GMT
Hmm... sounds more complicated than i thought all in all...
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Post by demonskull on May 16, 2020 11:20:47 GMT
Do a cold peen then, they work just fine and you can always use some epoxy with it too.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 16, 2020 20:41:55 GMT
Cold peen it, with these torches hot peening is a huge pain, if it works at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 21:09:14 GMT
This ^^^^^^^^^ Many tangs are soft (and historically so). The Bjorn bonk tutorial but I have done it freehand with great success. www.foxtail.nu/bjorn/bonk_eng.htmThe hot peen Albion uses is before the grip halves get glued on. Technically, the Albion peens are just holding the pommel on. The bottoming on the tang with a keyed pommel is also true of some using compression (one piece) grip cores. I had an A&A Black Prince that is technically a compression fit with a "peen" block that is actually a threaded nut. Even wrenching down on it, it was still wobbly in the guard. Grinding/filing off the top of the tang and taking it apart showed the pommel was bottoming/wedging on the tang. You can fashion a silver ring with a coin, a steel spoon, a drill and a file. Just go slow and get some needle files to clean up things. Cheers GC
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Post by Dandelion on May 17, 2020 7:07:07 GMT
Thank you for all the input, really. But... DUMB question: so "cold peening" mens literally that? Leaving the tang COLD? That would make extreme powerfull hammering necessary, no?
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 17, 2020 7:14:25 GMT
Yes, no heat involved. No, not very powerful hammering just patience and lots of light-medium force taps. Use a ball peen hammer to get things started, striking in the middle and working your way outwards. Go slow and precise or the metal rim you're creating can split. Leave no more than 3mm standing before you peen, 2mm is usually enough. A well annealed tang end is necessary, that's something you can use the blow torch for before you mount the pommel. Heat the tang up to glowing red and let it air cool.
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Post by leviathansteak on May 17, 2020 10:08:01 GMT
Yes, no heat involved. No, not very powerful hammering just patience and lots of light-medium force taps. Use a ball peen hammer to get things started, striking in the middle and working your way outwards. Go slow and precise or the metal rim you're creating can split. Leave no more than 3mm standing before you peen, 2mm is usually enough. A well annealed tang end is necessary, that's something you can use the blow torch for before you mount the pommel. Heat the tang up to glowing red and let it air cool. Question for you if you don't mind. When i heated the end of my tang to red hot, about half of the tang changed colour to purplish blue. The other half remained normal in colour. Do you think there will be a weak spot formed between the parts heated and unheated?
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Post by MOK on May 17, 2020 10:44:41 GMT
Yes, no heat involved. No, not very powerful hammering just patience and lots of light-medium force taps. Use a ball peen hammer to get things started, striking in the middle and working your way outwards. Go slow and precise or the metal rim you're creating can split. Leave no more than 3mm standing before you peen, 2mm is usually enough. A well annealed tang end is necessary, that's something you can use the blow torch for before you mount the pommel. Heat the tang up to glowing red and let it air cool. Question for you if you don't mind. When i heated the end of my tang to red hot, about half of the tang changed colour to purplish blue. The other half remained normal in colour. Do you think there will be a weak spot formed between the parts heated and unheated? As long as you let it cool down at its own pace, at most it means the end of the tang ends up softer than the rest of it, which is not a bad thing.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 17, 2020 12:42:35 GMT
Yes, no heat involved. No, not very powerful hammering just patience and lots of light-medium force taps. Use a ball peen hammer to get things started, striking in the middle and working your way outwards. Go slow and precise or the metal rim you're creating can split. Leave no more than 3mm standing before you peen, 2mm is usually enough. A well annealed tang end is necessary, that's something you can use the blow torch for before you mount the pommel. Heat the tang up to glowing red and let it air cool. Question for you if you don't mind. When i heated the end of my tang to red hot, about half of the tang changed colour to purplish blue. The other half remained normal in colour. Do you think there will be a weak spot formed between the parts heated and unheated? No. What MOK said.
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Post by Dandelion on May 17, 2020 15:32:35 GMT
Thanx for all the tips; we will see. Tang end is MASSIVE!
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Post by leviathansteak on May 17, 2020 23:12:02 GMT
Thanks MOK and Lukas for the answers!
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Post by brotherbanzai on May 18, 2020 17:15:37 GMT
If you're going to cold peen it, it's not a bad idea to use a torch to heat the peen when you're done, before the grip is in place, to normalize the peen. Cold hammering will work harden the peen causing it to be brittle compared to the rest of the tang (which shouldn't be hardened). Not a super huge deal, but less than ideal and a cold peen is already a bit less than ideal on it's own. I expect some people don't even think to normalize the peen after a hot peen, even though they still have the torch right there in their hands.
Also, when heating the tang for a peen or otherwise, clamp it in a heavy steel vice or between a couple thick pieces of steel placed on the tang before the shoulder. That way, if any heat should travel down the tang toward the blade, the vice will act as a heat sink to protect the temper of the blade.
Lastly, I find an oxy/acetylene torch to be the most convenient to use for peening. A tig welder also works very well (and faster), but you have to be more careful with it, and not as many people have access to a tig compared to an oxy torch (I would think, could be wrong nowadays, but oxy/acetylene torches used to be pretty common around the garages of DIYers).
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