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Post by markus313 on May 14, 2020 21:06:20 GMT
I think it wouldve been funny to see how a conversation between Fiore and Silver would go down. I picture something similar to that scene in the movie "The Replacements" with John Farveau , where he stares the thugs down at the table. Oh, just googled, I think I have a movie to watch
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Post by demented on May 14, 2020 21:41:04 GMT
rapier fighting like what Saviolo taught is different than Meyer , no arguement there but rapiers were still used plenty on battlefields and Saviolos style used cuts and defenses against cuts more so than the regular Italian rapier and it was much shorter for faster recovery. I think Silver just grouped them all together because he was pissed at Italians and wanted them to get off his lawn. Comparing Saviolo to regular Italian rapier is like saying Silver and Swetnam are the same because thier English. Meyers rappier is super similar to Bolognese sidesword , he even admits the rappier is foreign. Same with dagger material. Even the provoker, hitter, taker is something taken from the Italians, as far I know. Yes, I remember reading somewhere about Meyer training in Italy. I am not too familiar with Saviolo, only read the chapter in Hand’s Swordplay in the Age of Shakespeare. I think Silver must have been at least somewhat familiar with Saviolo’s teachings, even writing about how one of his fellows dies by the hands of someone “not standing much upon his skill, but carrying the valiant heart of an Englishman”. I guess his critique on Saviolo, and his style/weapon in particular would not have differed very much from his general opinions on rapiers (blade still too long, footwork being too complicated, not enough protection vs. other weapons etc.). One thing that baffles me is Saviolo not showing up to fight Silver. He had no issue messing with other Englishman. Silver must have either been physically intimidating or he had a reputation.
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Post by MOK on May 14, 2020 22:12:47 GMT
Yes, I remember reading somewhere about Meyer training in Italy. I am not too familiar with Saviolo, only read the chapter in Hand’s Swordplay in the Age of Shakespeare. I think Silver must have been at least somewhat familiar with Saviolo’s teachings, even writing about how one of his fellows dies by the hands of someone “not standing much upon his skill, but carrying the valiant heart of an Englishman”. I guess his critique on Saviolo, and his style/weapon in particular would not have differed very much from his general opinions on rapiers (blade still too long, footwork being too complicated, not enough protection vs. other weapons etc.). One thing that baffles me is Saviolo not showing up to fight Silver. He had no issue messing with other Englishman. Silver must have either been physically intimidating or he had a reputation. Or, most likely, it just didn't happen to be convenient at any point. One should never underestimate how stupendously faster, easier and more accessible traveling has become in modern times.
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Post by demented on May 15, 2020 1:12:25 GMT
One thing that baffles me is Saviolo not showing up to fight Silver. He had no issue messing with other Englishman. Silver must have either been physically intimidating or he had a reputation. Or, most likely, it just didn't happen to be convenient at any point. One should never underestimate how stupendously faster, easier and more accessible traveling has become in modern times. But he had no issue making time to insult the English in public or start street fights and issue challenges to the Masters of Defense. At that point he asked for problems. Silver shouldve went to his house though, not the Salle. Fiore made time to duel people in other countries and even with Italians in Saviolos time they were famous for duelling. I'm just saying there's a chance Saviolo was a yellow belly or at least selective of who he duelled. I also dont know what was up with the english at this point in time, Swetnam started that whole pamphlet war stating women are dirty whores and Silver targeted filthy Italians...
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Post by silverite on May 3, 2021 4:11:32 GMT
As I mentioned in another thread my preference is for the newer alternative method. Neither Wagner or Hand even attempted to understand this newer interpretation to a point they were outright wrong about what Winslow said. Wagner proved that with the Silvernomicon video when he claimed this alternative interpretation did not allow you to strike and move into place in true time. It may be that they just did not like the idea so they intentionally misquoted it or they did not read all of it and jumped to conclusions but...
The alternative interpretation clearly states you cannot be in the proper place or true times if you are stepping while attacking...unless you can step without slowing down your hand.
Having said that I am still a fan of Wagner and Hands work even if I don't agree with the slow hand or their assessment of this alternative interpretation. Wagner's book especially is a gold mine of information.
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