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Post by airborne on Apr 16, 2020 18:46:56 GMT
First of all sorry for not producing any photos regarding this enquiry but I am having problems doing so on my PC. I have just viewed a saber on a UK website (Antiques Atlas) which is advertised as a "Victorian French Infantry Officers Sword" . In my limited experience , it looks to me much like a French mounted artillery saber (1829) , except it is in a black leather scabbard with brass chape and belt rings etc . It does have decorative engraving on the pommel and single guard and quillon . On one side of the riccaso it is stamped with "Eisenhaur" and underneath "W.Hurster" and on the opposite side of the riccaso it is stamped "Solingen" . On one of the brass fittings that hold the belt ring in place is engraved the owners name " Maurer" . The handle is leather bound with nice three strand brass wire . Have any formites on here with a lot more experience than me got any ideas about this sword / saber ? origins , French etc ? Thanks
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Post by Jordan Williams on Apr 16, 2020 18:58:52 GMT
Probably an Mle1821 derivative for a German state based on the Eisenhauer etching. The Dutch used the pattern as well, though I think the Dutch had Eyzerhower or something like that.
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Post by MOK on Apr 16, 2020 19:04:08 GMT
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Post by Tomt24 on Apr 16, 2020 19:13:35 GMT
The incsription looks like F.HÖRSTER and Eisenhauer. You can find more Info on them with these correct terms.
1821 and Solingen seems about right. From my short research they did foreign pattern sabers in the beginnging, and later models where prussian and mainly 3rd Reich.
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Post by airborne on Apr 16, 2020 19:38:19 GMT
Thats the one MOK . So in your opinions is this a decent made sword ? Thanks guys
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Post by airborne on Apr 16, 2020 19:40:46 GMT
Forgot to ask , would that leather and brass scabbard be the original or would it have been all steel ?
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Post by Tomt24 on Apr 16, 2020 20:56:23 GMT
Probably an Mle1821 derivative for a German state based on the Eisenhauer etching. The Dutch used the pattern as well, though I think the Dutch had Eyzerhower or something like that. I second that theory, also "Maurer" is a typical german name.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 17, 2020 1:06:09 GMT
"Eisenhauer" (ironhewer) was inscripted on blades which passed a certain quality test by cutting an iron nail.
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Post by airborne on Apr 17, 2020 9:51:52 GMT
Thanks for that interesting information guys
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Post by airborne on Apr 17, 2020 9:57:17 GMT
The sword is being sold by an antique dealer and he is advertising it as a French Infantry Officers sword ? Any other theories on that especially as tomt24 explained that "Maurer" is a typical German name , and it was made in Germany . Also were some of these sold to the French Military as I thought France had its own sword armaments companies . Any other theories regarding the leather scabbard as opposed to a metal / steel one ? Thanks
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Apr 17, 2020 12:55:42 GMT
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Apr 17, 2020 13:01:38 GMT
Did a very fast 15 second Google search. ,,French M1821 Infantry Officers sabre''. First hit: Swiss. They had all French models from the AN XI to the M1822. Here's another link for the Swiss connection: www.waffensammlung-beck.ch/index.phpI hope you will bookmark these links. You may need them in the future. Cheers.
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Post by airborne on Apr 17, 2020 15:44:13 GMT
Thanks Uhlan
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Post by Tomt24 on Apr 18, 2020 18:28:17 GMT
The sword is being sold by an antique dealer and he is advertising it as a French Infantry Officers sword ? Any other theories on that especially as tomt24 explained that "Maurer" is a typical German name , and it was made in Germany . Also were some of these sold to the French Military as I thought France had its own sword armaments companies . Any other theories regarding the leather scabbard as opposed to a metal / steel one ? Thanks Could be swiss aswell. Maurer is a german name, could be fit for austria and swiss aswell. The scabbard is similiar to other from that time period. Metal scabbards where first related to cavalry use, and later became general fashion. French service is possible, maybe check for (french) proofing marks on the blade. Seen a F. Hörster british pattern with british proofmarks somewhere. The french had own manufacturers for sure, but not everything back in that day was as standardized and organized as today. For muskets the 1777 was the first try at standardized parts, but it took them around a decade to finally make it work. What is your motivation or interest in that particular sword?
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Post by airborne on Apr 19, 2020 15:16:56 GMT
Thanks for your reply tomt24 . To answer your question , I originally was after a decent reproduction cavalry saber style sword and looked at various options . I really liked Empire Costumes "Napoleonic Imperial Guard light cavalry saber" but there is a 3-6 month waiting list and he is having containment problems with his supplier(whoever they are )due to covid 19 .Dave Kelly put it into my mind regarding spending a bit more money to consider an authentic antique sword which is how I came up with the one you are talking about . I really fancied an 1829 French Mounted Artillery saber but they are not always readily available at the right price . I came across the German made one above and quite liked the looks and style of it with its simple "D" shaped knuckle guard and slightly curved blade ,and thats it really .My only question is it is advertised as a French Infantry Officers sword , why then would they rely on Germany to manufacture swords for them as they already had their own manufacturing factories etc ? Thanks
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Apr 19, 2020 16:38:22 GMT
French Officers often had a private order sabre, made by the commercial branch of Klingenthal, Coulaux, or Solingen. Also ordered sabres from fourbisseurs from Paris, like Manceaux, or others in the cities country wide. None of the above would show inspection stamps, as they were ,,off the books''. Fourbisseurs often had an entrelac with their name and address on the blade or a signature on the spine and a stamp with their name on the hilt somewhere.
So your sabre could be French, but the design of the second ring mount makes me look at the Swiss connection. The Swiss imported many French models before the Swiss unity, after which they looked elsewhere. Most of the Swiss French inspired stuff was made at Solingen and as meant for the Swiss market, of top notch quality. Only after the Swiss unity also Officers sabres had a Swiss stamp, the cross, on the blades. It could be that older sabres, from before the unity, later got stamped also, but I am not sure here. My guess this sabre is Swiss. There could be small differences, mainly in the blade, between the French sabre and the Solingen copy.
Cheers.
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Post by airborne on Apr 19, 2020 16:41:43 GMT
After doing a little more research I am beginning to think it could be as other formites have suggested the 1821 model ?? But would that fit in with the German maker F. Horster in Solingen ??
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Post by Jordan Williams on Apr 19, 2020 17:00:48 GMT
After doing a little more research I am beginning to think it could be as other formites have suggested the 1821 model ?? But would that fit in with the German maker F. Horster in Solingen ?? Did you Uhlan's reply?
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Apr 19, 2020 17:46:13 GMT
:)
This is the French 1821 Infantry Officer sabre, but made at Solingen by Horster. Probably not for the French market, as many of those only had the Solingen export etch on the spine, the Solingen Rose, a small wiggly thingy near the guard. So, with Horster on the blade, I'd guess made at Solingen for the Swiss market or beyond as this model had a wide circulation.
Cheers.
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Post by airborne on Apr 19, 2020 18:06:20 GMT
thanks guys
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