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Post by tsmspace on Apr 16, 2020 6:01:49 GMT
*yes I am aware of the risks of cutting with mall-ninja swords. I am very careful and only attempt soft targets. ------ I have these two remarkably not similar swords. I have had success and failure with both of them, and found that I needed to be specific with my technique in order to perform good cuts. I was surprised, however, to find that the forward blade was as different as it is. When cutting at bottles at a downward angle, I can be less concerned with my choice in blade section to hit with. The bottle is naturally pushed against it's stand (log) and there is plenty of resistance to keep the bottle in place while the blade cuts. However, when cutting at a "number 3" cut, or an inside one handed cut from the bottom up, the two swords are less likely to cut unless I hit the bottle just right,, the bottle is quite likely to go flying, and even if it is cut, it will not be cleaved. the pic shows that with the straight handle, I seem to have the best slicing action if I hit the bottle with the number 1 section,,, while with the forward blade I seem to have the best slicing action if I hit at the number 2 section. (it was a very dramatic difference for me just now. I went from rough gashes at best using the number one section on the red forward blade, to having clean zero resistance cleaves leaving me with that buttery sensation and drinkable edges.)
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 16, 2020 14:38:09 GMT
I think that goes to show in a profound way how and why technique matters with different sword shapes. Each blade design has it's own mechanics that have to match the methods with which it is deployed. It's like the difference between using a carpenter's hammer and a sledge hammer. Yes, both are hammers, but...
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 16, 2020 16:17:12 GMT
I think that goes to show in a profound way how and why technique matters with different sword shapes. Each blade design has it's own mechanics that have to match the methods with which it is deployed. It's like the difference between using a carpenter's hammer and a sledge hammer. Yes, both are hammers, but... I wonder how this one would compare. www.zombietools.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sharkalope.png
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Post by jayotterstein on Apr 16, 2020 18:06:11 GMT
Different blade shapes, different cutting techniques. It's all a matter of physics. The particular blade geometry (how the edge is beveled or not, width and general shape), the length of the blade and any curvature, along with the angle at which the handle is affixed determine where on the blade you want to strike and how.
Your straight handled sword looks to have a general shape which would be kind of similar to any curved sword, where you'd want to cut using the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the blade and end up pulling the blade across the target as you cut. The Bent handled blade looks to end up with a somewhat circular edge making contact as you cut resulting in what ends up being a chopping motion at the point of contact (the target naturally is sliced in both direction from a central point, similar to a khopesh). It looks like the best point of curvature on the blade is where you have the arrow pointing.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 16, 2020 20:14:40 GMT
On a Japanese sword you want to make contact with the target using the"monouchi" of the blade. With a European sword you want to contact the target with the "center of percussion" of the blade. You can google those two terms and educate yourself on what they are and how to find them, however, may be difficult to identify them on non traditional fantasy blades.
Depending on how far the makers went beyond aesthetics, it may be pointless...
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 17, 2020 5:10:03 GMT
On a Japanese sword you want to make contact with the target using the"monouchi" of the blade. With a European sword you want to contact the target with the "center of percussion" of the blade. You can google those two terms and educate yourself on what they are and how to find them, however, may be difficult to identify them on non traditional fantasy blades. Depending on how far the makers went beyond aesthetics, it may be pointless... I honestly think they seem pretty impressive. some are much easier to cut with than others. actually a lot of them aren't terribly wacky,, they are basically similar to one thing or another,,, in this case, though, it's very light, with hardly an ounce in the tip, and I'm mostly used to using straight blades with bellies, so I think I just need to figure out how to approach the forward bent blade like this. today I had some good successes and some real fails, so beyond it is a little dull, I think I just am not good enough to feel the slice well enough to adjust my technique. It's basically random when I have a good or bad cut. If I had more practice I might be able to feel around and know where I am moving differently, but I'm just not there right now.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 17, 2020 11:02:24 GMT
...may be difficult to identify them on non traditional fantasy blades. Depending on how far the makers went beyond aesthetics, it may be pointless... I'm not convinced it would be "pointless". If somebody who was knowledgeable about blades and had a good amount of experience using them, then I think they could work out where the point of balance/percussion, etc would be on a fantasy blade. Whether or not that blade would be functionally useful is another matter. Taking the decorative parameters to the aside, and focusing only on blade shape and performance, I don't see why it isn't reasonable to discover the same engineering points on a mall ninja sword as it is on any mainstream historic blade. Give an experienced swordsman a few weeks with the fantasy blade and they could work out some rudimentary techniques to go with it's performance values. I think it would be fun to experiment.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 13:22:21 GMT
...may be difficult to identify them on non traditional fantasy blades. Depending on how far the makers went beyond aesthetics, it may be pointless... I'm not convinced it would be "pointless". If somebody who was knowledgeable about blades and had a good amount of experience using them, then I think they could work out where the point of balance/percussion, etc would be on a fantasy blade. Whether or not that blade would be functionally useful is another matter. Taking the decorative parameters to the aside, and focusing only on blade shape and performance, I don't see why it isn't reasonable to discover the same engineering points on a mall ninja sword as it is on any mainstream historic blade. Give an experienced swordsman a few weeks with the fantasy blade and they could work out some rudimentary techniques to go with it's performance values. I think it would be fun to experiment. I would think that distal taper is an important part of sword functionality and performance. Not a likely feature on a wall hanger but we dont know much about the OP's fantasy blades and their makers/designers. In the interests of full disclosure I have no experience with fantasy blades /wall hangers . If the OP as the time/interest its certainly with a try but again... a sharpened slab of metal is probably not going to give you much to work with.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 17, 2020 14:08:10 GMT
Every sword is fundamentally a sharpened slab of metal.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 14:21:00 GMT
Every sword is fundamentally a sharpened slab of metal. I suppose it also depends on what swords you buy/own. I think any knowledgeable and capable sword smith will dispute that, Angus Trim, Howard Clark and Peter Johnsson are three that I can think of, whose work I own.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 14:21:57 GMT
Every sword is fundamentally a sharpened slab of metal. I suppose it depends on what swords you like/buy/own. I think any knowledgeable and capable sword smith will dispute that, Angus Trim, Howard Clark and Peter Johnsson are three that immediately come to mind, whose work I also own.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 17, 2020 14:30:16 GMT
Zen Hydra is quite correct. It's important to remember that not all swords had distal taper. For a fantasy blade: maybe, maybe not- but it would be interesting to find out.
From what I see in the fantasy blade market, there is no convention on how they are made. Some might have a distal taper and good geometry, most will probably not. It's dependent on the individual example that you happen to be holding in your hand. And from the larger standpoint- what defines a "sword" vs. something else? That can be debated.
For a personal collection I can see the benefit in trying out the swords and seeing what's what. It remains to be seen if the information can translate into something useful for others. But at least the owner will know the performance values of each individual blade.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Apr 17, 2020 14:35:56 GMT
Every sword is fundamentally a sharpened slab of metal. I suppose it also depends on what swords you buy/own. I think any knowledgeable and capable sword smith will dispute that, Angus Trim, Howard Clark and Peter Johnsson are three that I can think of, whose work I own. which peter johnsson piece do u own?
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 14:51:29 GMT
I suppose it also depends on what swords you buy/own. I think any knowledgeable and capable sword smith will dispute that, Angus Trim, Howard Clark and Peter Johnsson are three that I can think of, whose work I own. which peter johnsson piece do u own? I own several Albion Museum line swords researched and developed/designed by Peter. I do not own a custom sword by him yet but I want to...
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 15:04:35 GMT
Zen Hydra is quite correct. It's important to remember that not all swords had distal taper. For a fantasy blade: maybe, maybe not- but it would be interesting to find out. From what I see in the fantasy blade market, there is no convention on how they are made. Some might have a distal taper and good geometry, most will probably not. It's dependent on the individual example that you happen to be holding in your hand. And from the larger standpoint- what defines a "sword" vs. something else? That can be debated.For a personal collection I can see the benefit in trying out the swords and seeing what's what. It remains to be seen if the information can translate into something useful for others. But at least the owner will know the performance values of each individual blade. I guess Zen Hydra's statement is correct if you would argue that a sharpened slab of metal is a sword. That is not an argument I would make. While a sharp slab of metal can certainly function as a sword, my definition of what a sword is requires the transformation that a sword smith brings to that slab of metal. It is certainly an interesting and potentially valuable exercise for anyone to fully understand what the true nature and utility is of every potential tool that they own.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 17, 2020 15:38:46 GMT
...may be difficult to identify them on non traditional fantasy blades. Depending on how far the makers went beyond aesthetics, it may be pointless... I'm not convinced it would be "pointless". If somebody who was knowledgeable about blades and had a good amount of experience using them, then I think they could work out where the point of balance/percussion, etc would be on a fantasy blade. Whether or not that blade would be functionally useful is another matter. Taking the decorative parameters to the aside, and focusing only on blade shape and performance, I don't see why it isn't reasonable to discover the same engineering points on a mall ninja sword as it is on any mainstream historic blade. Give an experienced swordsman a few weeks with the fantasy blade and they could work out some rudimentary techniques to go with it's performance values. I think it would be fun to experiment. well, for example there are essentially a few important characteristics. The position and shape of the blade edge in relation to the handle, the weight and weight distribution, these swords are similar to possibly a few philipino shapes, or possibly like a yatagan with a more "belly" shape. so it should work like whatever it simulates to some degree.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 17, 2020 15:40:57 GMT
Zen Hydra is quite correct. It's important to remember that not all swords had distal taper. For a fantasy blade: maybe, maybe not- but it would be interesting to find out. From what I see in the fantasy blade market, there is no convention on how they are made. Some might have a distal taper and good geometry, most will probably not. It's dependent on the individual example that you happen to be holding in your hand. And from the larger standpoint- what defines a "sword" vs. something else? That can be debated.For a personal collection I can see the benefit in trying out the swords and seeing what's what. It remains to be seen if the information can translate into something useful for others. But at least the owner will know the performance values of each individual blade. I guess Zen Hydra's statement is correct if you would argue that a sharpened slab of metal is a sword. That is not an argument I would make. While a sharp slab of metal can certainly function as a sword, my definition of what a sword is requires the transformation that a sword smith brings to that slab of metal. It is certainly an interesting and potentially valuable exercise for anyone to fully understand what the true nature and utility is of every potential tool that they own. No amount of romanticizing will bestow material properties which don't exist. There is nothing about human effort and/or artistry which will not eventually be quantified and improved upon by the tools we create.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 17, 2020 15:43:51 GMT
I'm not convinced it would be "pointless". If somebody who was knowledgeable about blades and had a good amount of experience using them, then I think they could work out where the point of balance/percussion, etc would be on a fantasy blade. Whether or not that blade would be functionally useful is another matter. Taking the decorative parameters to the aside, and focusing only on blade shape and performance, I don't see why it isn't reasonable to discover the same engineering points on a mall ninja sword as it is on any mainstream historic blade. Give an experienced swordsman a few weeks with the fantasy blade and they could work out some rudimentary techniques to go with it's performance values. I think it would be fun to experiment. I would think that distal taper is an important part of sword functionality and performance. Not a likely feature on a wall hanger but we dont know much about the OP's fantasy blades and their makers/designers. In the interests of full disclosure I have no experience with fantasy blades /wall hangers . If the OP as the time/interest its certainly with a try but again... a sharpened slab of metal is probably not going to give you much to work with. these are "quality" metal. compared to the markets best swords, they are poor quality I'm sure, but compared to metals, they are good quality for swords. They are made of "budget knife steels". Exact steels may vary from some pieces but mostly they are what you would expect in a budget bowie or the like. It's not like some kind of mild structural steel. The edges hold pretty good and can be very fine. It may not slice a tomato paper thin, but it will never fail you in the kitchen, and bottles are like *pffffff-phop* . rarely, but I can leave the bottle base standing. If used as a weapon against an unarmed victim, they would be very very lethal. no doubt.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 17, 2020 15:58:28 GMT
I would think that distal taper is an important part of sword functionality and performance. Not a likely feature on a wall hanger but we dont know much about the OP's fantasy blades and their makers/designers. In the interests of full disclosure I have no experience with fantasy blades /wall hangers . If the OP as the time/interest its certainly with a try but again... a sharpened slab of metal is probably not going to give you much to work with. these are "quality" metal. compared to the markets best swords, they are poor quality I'm sure, but compared to metals, they are good quality for swords. They are made of "budget knife steels". Exact steels may vary from some pieces but mostly they are what you would expect in a budget bowie or the like. It's not like some kind of mild structural steel. The edges hold pretty good and can be very fine. It may not slice a tomato paper thin, but it will never fail you in the kitchen, and bottles are like *pffffff-phop* . rarely, but I can leave the bottle base standing. If used as a weapon against an unarmed victim, they would be very very lethal. no doubt. Both look like they would be very lethal if required. Is that rust on sword #1?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 17, 2020 17:17:22 GMT
There are some general rules and striking with the CoP is one. However, there are some exceptions depending in part on technique, target, blade, etc. And at times some experimentation is required to find the sweet spot. For an example take Condor’s Engineering Bolo. I have one and it’s a beast and I don’t use it often but when I do I’m glad I have one. Due to the fact I don’t use it often sometimes it takes a few hits for me to adjust. My tendency is to slice with it nearer the tip or with the apex of the pot belly. It works much better using the spot the red line indicates with a slight pulling action. It then ploughs through whatever. I think it’s because that spot puts more mass on the far side pushing it through. Another is my M1902 repro sabre. Normally I’d use the CoP on a sabre and on light, soft targets that works on the one also. By the time I get up to 1 gallon round bleach bottles that sabre peters out. But when moving out to the tip it will zip through.
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