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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2020 10:34:54 GMT
So a karambit is basically the worst cutting shape, the blade is going to not cut, mostly, and instead the knife will stick in like a claw, hurt, but cause much less total damage than a slash like a blade that is curved back.
I mean it could be a balloon, so it's still a blade, but overall it's not going to be effectively sharper than a normal blade. it WILL be effectively more durable. THe edge of the blade will be effectively MORE obtuse than it's actual bevel, therefore it will be more resilient. Basically, it will be able to work a lot tougher materials.
So, imagining a real-world scenario, where someone is going to knife-fight for real, probably everyone knows what blades are like, and will be wearing some kind of protection, maybe armor or heavy cloth. A karambit, then, would be good because you would be able to essentially grab the opponent with the hook , and control them to some degree.
FOr example, if I needed to stab with my dagger through a weakness in their armament (maybe the are wearing a bullet proof vest and some arm guards), it will be very difficult to actually just poke them in the right place, because they will be moving around and putting their armor in the way. INstead, I need to use my karambit to pull the armor out of the way, and stick them with,,, maybe my other karambit, or some other kind of knife in the other hand.
basically, the karambit is better because the heavy materials will dull a normal blade, but not a karambit, and you can't slash them anyway, because you can't GET the knife INTO them unless you somehow grapple their protection out of the way (not to mention their weapons).
So,,, In the areas where the karambit came into popularity, I am imagining lots of vegetable armor,,, like sticks woven into hair, heavy grass and fibers woven together into pads, I'm not 100% on the ideas, but I do imagine those areas the karambit comes from to have a history of such ,, I will call it "jungle armor".
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Post by MOK on Apr 1, 2020 18:51:32 GMT
So a karambit is basically the worst cutting shape, the blade is going to not cut, mostly, and instead the knife will stick in like a claw, hurt, but cause much less total damage than a slash like a blade that is curved back. I mean it could be a balloon, so it's still a blade, but overall it's not going to be effectively sharper than a normal blade. it WILL be effectively more durable. THe edge of the blade will be effectively MORE obtuse than it's actual bevel, therefore it will be more resilient. Basically, it will be able to work a lot tougher materials. No, that's not how it works. An oblique angle of impact makes a blade's effective edge angle more acute because it elongates the cross-section that makes contact with the target. For a quick visual example, imagine a blade 40mm wide by 10mm thick with flat 20mm edge bevels, meeting a target at right angles and at 45 degrees: The "real" edge angle, measured straight angles across the blade, is roughly 30 degrees, but when the blade meets the target at a 45 degree angle instead of straight on, the effective cross section is so elongated that the effective edge angle is only about 20 degrees. However, no matter what you do this cannot make the effective edge angle more obtuse because straight angles to the edge is the shortest possible distance across the blade, and anything under or over 90 degrees makes the effective cross-section longer (and thus the effective edge angle more acute). No, you'd move the armour aside with your other hand and stab or slash them with the karambit. But IRL the vast majority of people simply do not wear armour of any kind, in or out of battle, so most of the time you can just slash 'em. The karambit isn't really a weapon of war, either, and the South-East Asian climate where the karambit originates from encourages relatively light clothing, too, so 99% of the times where you'd want to knife a person you'll have no trouble finding bare flesh to rip through.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 1, 2020 20:52:22 GMT
It looks plenty deadly enough. Used in accordance with its purpose as a claw, I can see it doing significant damage in a fight. I wouldn't want to get slashed by one. I'm thinking about how much it hurts to get clawed by a cat, and they are such tiny creatures.
Then again, the only way to know for sure is to get one and use it on a variety of targets to see what it is capable of.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 1, 2020 21:04:05 GMT
Fortunately, the karambit is one of the weapons with the luxury of belonging to ongoing, modern fighting styles. Lots of them. It's super easy to find information on their use, so there's no real need to speculate. One of the first results on Google provides a nice overview, albeit simplistic, but there's tons more out there: www.karambit.com/faqWe don't have to guess or theorize when there are living people who've been using these things longer than many of us have been alive.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2020 22:25:34 GMT
No, that's not how it works. An oblique angle of impact makes a blade's effective edge angle more acute because it elongates the cross-section that makes contact with the target. For a quick visual example, imagine a blade 40mm wide by 10mm thick with flat 20mm edge bevels, meeting a target at right angles and at 45 degrees: The "real" edge angle, measured straight angles across the blade, is roughly 30 degrees, but when the blade meets the target at a 45 degree angle instead of straight on, the effective cross section is so elongated that the effective edge angle is only about 20 degrees. ---- ok, but if you drew the same two lines across a karambit, you would have the opposite effect. the 90 line would be the same 30, but the angled line would be MORE obtuse, not more acute.
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Post by MOK on Apr 1, 2020 23:24:14 GMT
No, that's not how it works. An oblique angle of impact makes a blade's effective edge angle more acute because it elongates the cross-section that makes contact with the target. For a quick visual example, imagine a blade 40mm wide by 10mm thick with flat 20mm edge bevels, meeting a target at right angles and at 45 degrees: The "real" edge angle, measured straight angles across the blade, is roughly 30 degrees, but when the blade meets the target at a 45 degree angle instead of straight on, the effective cross section is so elongated that the effective edge angle is only about 20 degrees. ok, but if you drew the same two lines across a karambit, you would have the opposite effect. the 90 line would be the same 30, but the angled line would be MORE obtuse, not more acute. No, that's exactly what I'm saying doesn't happen - it cannot get any more obtuse than the angle measured straight across, no matter what you do. That's literally, physically impossible. The effective cross-section grows longer and the effective edge angle smaller no matter which way you tilt the impact angle - at 90 degrees you get the shortest possible cross-section (and thus the most obtuse possible edge angle) and 45 degrees has the exact same effect in this regard as 135 degrees.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 2, 2020 4:24:43 GMT
ok, but if you drew the same two lines across a karambit, you would have the opposite effect. the 90 line would be the same 30, but the angled line would be MORE obtuse, not more acute. No, that's exactly what I'm saying doesn't happen - it cannot get any more obtuse than the angle measured straight across, no matter what you do. That's literally, physically impossible. The effective cross-section grows longer and the effective edge angle smaller no matter which way you tilt the impact angle - at 90 degrees you get the shortest possible cross-section (and thus the most obtuse possible edge angle) and 45 degrees has the exact same effect in this regard as 135 degrees. it happens less, but then it's a factor of the edge geometry, which is probably more obtuse on the karambit, and the amount of curve of the blade,, so the more the blade is curved, the less acute it will be. also, as you penetrate more deeply, the angle of the cut is lessened by the curve. so anyway you still result in a less acute bevel than a normal slicing blade, and you still end up with more metal supporting any point of the edge than a normal slicing blade.
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Scott
Member
Posts: 1,675
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Post by Scott on Apr 3, 2020 22:23:22 GMT
I'd suggest you get a karambit or similar blade and try cutting with it, because in my experience blades with a forward curve cut very well indeed. Even IF you're correct about the edge angle becoming more obtuse in practice this can be cancelled out by making the edge more acute. In practice the curve of the blade helps the cutting action as it holds whatever you're cutting in place in a way straight blades can't. In all seriousness get yourself a cheap karambit, hawkbill or similar and try cutting with it and you'll see.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Apr 3, 2020 22:34:34 GMT
The karambit is a weapon that works best with a specific fighting style, particularly within silat/FMA. when used properly within the system it was meant for, it can be extremely effective. any weapon when not used as it was designed will likely not be as effective as it could or should be.
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Post by leed on Aug 21, 2020 18:48:25 GMT
What little I know, Karimbit is very effective with training, aggression, and nerves. Effective with a boxing style, automatic draw cut, and easy concealment with the curved shape. Not for the faint of heart.
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