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Post by vecna808 on Feb 26, 2020 0:47:38 GMT
I am looking to have a custom bokken made from here
It needs to be 140cm ( ish ) to play with the HEMA guys.
I need help with the Tsuka Length vs Blade lengh, and the sori style, ( is chokuto actually straight ??) For a 140cm bokken.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 26, 2020 4:44:06 GMT
Wood or steel? I wouldn't spar wooden.
Castille makes some.
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Post by vecna808 on Feb 26, 2020 5:46:28 GMT
Wood or steel? I wouldn't spar wooden. Castille makes some.
Wood.
"I wouldn't spar wooden. " eh?? Would have thought sparing with full steel katana more dangerous? ??
I personally hate my sword bendy, every real ( well made _ folded ) katana have held has been very stiff, almost like a bokken.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 26, 2020 5:50:02 GMT
Wood or steel? I wouldn't spar wooden. Castille makes some.
Wood.
"I wouldn't spar wooden. " eh?? Would have thought sparing with full steel katana more dangerous? ??
I personally hate my sword bendy, every real ( well made _ folded ) katana have held has been very stiff, almost like a bokken.
Sparring swords need to be flexible so you can stab someone/flub a cut and not injure your opponent. Wood does not flex and splinters. Steel flexes and when it breaks using modern hema blade cross section often does not break sharp. If you want realism you need steel. Wood and metal react very differently to each other in sword fighting.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 26, 2020 5:51:35 GMT
It doesn't need to be floppy or even very flexy, but there is a reason the majority of SCA/HEMA fencers who take themselves seriously do not use wood.
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Post by vecna808 on Feb 26, 2020 6:15:04 GMT
It doesn't need to be floppy or even very flexy, but there is a reason the majority of SCA/HEMA fencers who take themselves seriously do not use wood.
I was shocked how bendy the competition swords were at the HEMA club just joined. Then even more shocked when saw video of real longsword , as bendy a f**k.
A 2 handed stab to the body with a bokken stops the opp in their tracks, with a bendy sworg the guy just walks through it and tags your head, hardly noticing the body hit. Plus attacking the opps sword much more difficult as force is absorbed by the bend.
But very good point, I need tocheck if club is cool with a wooden bokken. Otherwise waste of money . Thanks
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Post by RufusScorpius on Feb 26, 2020 11:25:06 GMT
Just use real sharps. That way when you thrust your opponent in the chest, you will stop him. He won't be tempted to use bad sportsmanship by ignoring the simulated hit and continuing his attack. Problem solved.
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Post by MOK on Feb 26, 2020 12:21:08 GMT
I was shocked how bendy the competition swords were at the HEMA club just joined. Then even more shocked when saw video of real longsword , as bendy a f**k. Well, it varies. Some real swords are downright floppy, some are very much like tactical prybars, most somewhere in the middle. It's always a compromise between half a dozen mutually exclusive design goals. Whether live weapon or blunt waster, a properly made sword will flex very little in the half closer to the hand (AKA the forte, or strong), and not at all in the plane of the blade. If you're trying to apply pressure with the flat near the point (AKA the foible, or weak), you're already doing it wrong. And if your practice partner refuses to acknowledge a square hit just because it didn't hurt, they're doing it very, very wrong! That kind of excessive competitiveness will teach them suicidal habits and get themselves or someone else injured sooner or later.
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Post by leviathansteak on Feb 26, 2020 14:29:25 GMT
Honestly a two handed stab on an unarmoured target would just go straight through, bringing him in range for what we call an afterblow.
Absolutely historical thing to happen in sharp duels. The guy stopping dead on the tip of the bokken is more an artefact of sparring than running in close is.
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Post by MOK on Feb 26, 2020 14:37:43 GMT
Honestly a two handed stab on an unarmoured target would just go straight through, bringing him in range for what we call an afterblow. Absolutely historical thing to happen in sharp duels. The guy stopping dead on the tip of the bokken is more an artefact of sparring than running in close is. Oh yeah, this too. You should never drop your defense until you're safely out of measure and the opponent has actually stopped fighting, even if you think you've dealt a mortal blow; dying isn't the same as dead.
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Post by vecna808 on Feb 26, 2020 17:04:29 GMT
I was shocked how bendy the competition swords were at the HEMA club just joined. Then even more shocked when saw video of real longsword , as bendy a f**k. Well, it varies. Some real swords are downright floppy, some are very much like tactical prybars, most somewhere in the middle. It's always a compromise between half a dozen mutually exclusive design goals. Whether live weapon or blunt waster, a properly made sword will flex very little in the half closer to the hand (AKA the forte, or strong), and not at all in the plane of the blade. If you're trying to apply pressure with the flat near the point (AKA the foible, or weak), you're already doing it wrong. And if your practice partner refuses to acknowledge a square hit just because it didn't hurt, they're doing it very, very wrong! That kind of excessive competitiveness will teach them suicidal habits and get themselves or someone else injured sooner or later.
Yes they have a lot of trouble acknowledging their hits, at the mo I am giving benefit of doubt, they are covered in protection, hard pads everywhere, like bloody SWAT lol. While I am fighting in tshirt mask and gloves, its natural I am going to feel a lot more hits. Maybe its a pride thing with them, as you know I am brutally honest when it comes to sword ability, maybe they see that negatively ? Either way no problem , I just need an experienced guy on the end of my sword to tune my style, fix cardio, etc etc etc. Do not need to make any points with them
I have met this "pride" thing before, if you walk into a dojo and challenge the master ( best student or whatever ) rarely goes well, except where I come from thats exactly what one should be doing. Just a little culture clash lol.
I have been watching some of the bloody excellent vids you keep posting ( the one on half sword, and others on same page ), guy there had "real" longsword , bendy as hell over the entire lengh ( obviously more as going towards tip ), katana he had would not flex if you hit it with a truck
Nothing wrong with bendy swords , just a radically different art when in use
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Post by vecna808 on Feb 26, 2020 17:47:10 GMT
Honestly a two handed stab on an unarmoured target would just go straight through, bringing him in range for what we call an afterblow. Absolutely historical thing to happen in sharp duels. The guy stopping dead on the tip of the bokken is more an artefact of sparring than running in close is. Oh yeah, this too. You should never drop your defense until you're safely out of measure and the opponent has actually stopped fighting, even if you think you've dealt a mortal blow; dying isn't the same as dead.
Yes ok I def concede that, in that circumstance I should be expecting an afterblow. But at the same time I would contend the afterblow is not going to be unaffected by being run through. I have been almost run through, it damn well affected my afterblow. Plus anywhere near the heart and I would expect the shock to stop the guy in tracks, but that just my feeling, prob well wrong there lol.
In general tho I think you guys are right, I should be ( and will be ) moe concerned with the afterblow.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 26, 2020 19:53:06 GMT
Yes they have a lot of trouble acknowledging their hits, at the mo I am giving benefit of doubt, they are covered in protection, hard pads everywhere, like bloody SWAT lol. While I am fighting in tshirt mask and gloves, its natural I am going to feel a lot more hits. Maybe its a pride thing with them, as you know I am brutally honest when it comes to sword ability, maybe they see that negatively ? Either way no problem , I just need an experienced guy on the end of my sword to tune my style, fix cardio, etc etc etc. Do not need to make any points with them :)
I have met this "pride" thing before, if you walk into a dojo and challenge the master ( best student or whatever ) rarely goes well, except where I come from thats exactly what one should be doing. Just a little culture clash lol.
Dojo syndrome is real everywhere, and always needs to be guarded against. Personally I think everyone doing this stuff should have a FULL range of training experience. From sharp real weapon use (cutting targets & very careful bind work at higher level) to full speed tournaments. One key is to learn how to do things slowly with limited gear on. This helps you appreciate that, without the gear, you are incredibly vulnerable. Swords will kill you without any great force being used. So that way, when someone gives you a "light" cut to the neck or a leveraged grapple with the sword, you'll better appreciate that--WITHOUT armor--you'd be out of the game for good.
I ran into this issue in a recent mixed-group tournament where I got inside the guard of an opponent and slashed the neck and down the chest very quickly. They didn't want to acknowledge it, having never actually sparred out of HEMA kit. This is not a problem you run into with folks who've done more gear-light slow play or better understand how swords work.
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Post by vecna808 on Feb 27, 2020 0:07:06 GMT
Yes they have a lot of trouble acknowledging their hits, at the mo I am giving benefit of doubt, they are covered in protection, hard pads everywhere, like bloody SWAT lol. While I am fighting in tshirt mask and gloves, its natural I am going to feel a lot more hits. Maybe its a pride thing with them, as you know I am brutally honest when it comes to sword ability, maybe they see that negatively ? Either way no problem , I just need an experienced guy on the end of my sword to tune my style, fix cardio, etc etc etc. Do not need to make any points with them
I have met this "pride" thing before, if you walk into a dojo and challenge the master ( best student or whatever ) rarely goes well, except where I come from thats exactly what one should be doing. Just a little culture clash lol.
Dojo syndrome is real everywhere, and always needs to be guarded against. Personally I think everyone doing this stuff should have a FULL range of training experience. From sharp real weapon use (cutting targets & very careful bind work at higher level) to full speed tournaments. One key is to learn how to do things slowly with limited gear on. This helps you appreciate that, without the gear, you are incredibly vulnerable. Swords will kill you without any great force being used. So that way, when someone gives you a "light" cut to the neck or a leveraged grapple with the sword, you'll better appreciate that--WITHOUT armor--you'd be out of the game for good.
I ran into this issue in a recent mixed-group tournament where I got inside the guard of an opponent and slashed the neck and down the chest very quickly. They didn't want to acknowledge it, having never actually sparred out of HEMA kit. This is not a problem you run into with folks who've done more gear-light slow play or better understand how swords work.
"Personally I think everyone doing this stuff should have a FULL range of training experience. From sharp real weapon use (cutting targets & very careful bind work at higher level) to full speed tournaments."
Agreed 100% , I personally am very poor at live bade work ( bind work you called it ), and fully accept that compromises some technique, which in turn affects sparing. My first teacher alway emphasized that a sword is a method of cutting, ignore the edge and its an iron bar . ( plus he was strict on treating a bokken exactly as a live katana , something I have always thought good )
"I ran into this issue in a recent mixed-group tournament where I got inside the guard of an opponent and slashed the neck and down the chest very quickly. They didn't want to acknowledge it"
Now thats wierd, exacly same happened to me at club just joined, except the stroke was upwards groin to neck lol lol.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 27, 2020 17:51:53 GMT
It's the direct result of people who only ever fight in kit, and have to be hit hard before they acknowledge it. Ironically it's similar to the problems of the SCA heavy system that HEMA was designed to prevent. If a sharp is sliced across your neck and chest, you're a ham being carved. Heck, if you've let the sword get there you've already lost.
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