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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 3, 2020 19:32:56 GMT
Now I'm confused. I just read through the last 6 pages as I was interested in ordering a custom shinken from Jkoo/Sinosword. So what is the overall assessment of JKoo? Good? Bad? Everything I've read up until I saw this thread said they were good-to-go. Now, I'm not sure if dropping $400-500 on them is a wise move. IMHO, the assessment is that unless you really know what to look for and what to avoid on a sword to sword basis, there will be considerable risk involved. when ordering a custom sword and if paying up front, you won't really have the opportunity to check first unless pics are supplied and a full refund is an option. again, you'd have to know what to look for. there really is no safe dollar amount that guarantees quality with a seller like this. plus, you won't know what's going on under the hood until you get it in hand and inspect it. judging from the recent reviews I've seen, there are a good number of flaws inside and out. I suppose it really depends on what you're expecting and what you'd be happy with. |
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Post by amstel78 on Feb 3, 2020 21:00:24 GMT
Now I'm confused. I just read through the last 6 pages as I was interested in ordering a custom shinken from Jkoo/Sinosword. So what is the overall assessment of JKoo? Good? Bad? Everything I've read up until I saw this thread said they were good-to-go. Now, I'm not sure if dropping $400-500 on them is a wise move. IMHO, the assessment is that unless you really know what to look for and what to avoid on a sword to sword basis, there will be considerable risk involved. when ordering a custom sword and if paying up front, you won't really have the opportunity to check first unless pics are supplied and a full refund is an option. again, you'd have to know what to look for. there really is no safe dollar amount that guarantees quality with a seller like this. plus, you won't know what's going on under the hood until you get it in hand and inspect it. judging from the recent reviews I've seen, there are a good number of flaws inside and out. I suppose it really depends on what you're expecting and what you'd be happy with. Thanks for the good advice. As I said before, my expectations are pretty much commensurate with the price and where it's coming from. There are obviously certain things I'm looking for on the nagasa; centered peak on the mune, proper geometric yokote, corect niku geometry, properly tempered boshi and ha. Critical importance is obviously proper forging if the blade is folded or laminated.
Smaller things I'm not overly critical about are tsuba, and other ornamental fittings. I'd prefer hand fitment but if things are slightly loose, they can always be shimmed.
The tsuka has to be either haichi (preferred) or rikko profile and the ito has to be done absolutely right. If the triangles aren't super perfect, I'm OK with it as long as the material is wrapped with hishigami, and is very tight. The end knots are also critical in my view.
If vendors like Hanbon or JKoo can at least meet the critical requirements, I'd be happy.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 3, 2020 21:53:30 GMT
The tsuka has to be either haichi (preferred) or rikko profile and the ito has to be done absolutely right. If the triangles aren't super perfect, I'm OK with it as long as the material is wrapped with hishigami, and is very tight. The end knots are also critical in my view. If vendors like Hanbon or JKoo can at least meet the critical requirements, I'd be happy. I am picky about tsuka work and not just because I practice tsukamaki (I am my own worst critic) but I have not yet seen what I would consider to be a well wrapped tsuka from jkoo. I've seen some that clearly had the samegawa laid on top of the core instead of inlaid, which could lead to shifting when the glue heats up and also makes the tsuka look boxy. I have seen very sloppy diamonds and reversed end knots(most ebay seller tsuka are prone to this) and doubling up of ito near the kashira and so on. it depends on what you feel looks good to you. it also may not be so easy to swap things out later on if the nakago, ha and mune-machi and other elements you can't see are not in good shape. it makes the work difficult and sometimes impossible. red flags like mentioned above could also be indicating the use of poor quality wood, cracks and splits and a host of other issues. many of the aesthetic issues won't mean much functionally, the sword could still be a great cutter but again, spotting obvious flaws like this usually means there are some or many other issues to be found. as I said, it really depends on your standards and needs. I have seen a $100 sword with cheap fittings, poor workmanship and a block of a tsuka that was rewrapped in duct tape, cut satisfactorily for over 10 years. the owner was very happy with it and it served them well. |
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Post by amstel78 on Feb 3, 2020 22:00:48 GMT
I am picky about tsuka work and not just because I practice tsukamaki (I am my own worst critic) but I have not yet seen what I would consider to be a well wrapped tsuka from jkoo. I've seen some that clearly had the samegawa laid on top of the core instead of inlaid, which could lead to shifting when the glue heats up and also makes the tsuka look boxy. I have seen very sloppy diamonds and reversed end knots(most ebay seller tsuka are prone to this) and doubling up of ito near the kashira and so on. it depends on what you feel looks good to you. it also may not be so easy to swap things out later on if the nakago, ha and mune-machi and other elements you can't see are not in good shape. it makes the work difficult and sometimes impossible. red flags like mentioned above could also be indicating the use of poor quality wood, cracks and splits and a host of other issues. many of the aesthetic issues won't mean much functionally, the sword could still be a great cutter but again, spotting obvious flaws like this usually means there are some or many other issues to be found. as I said, it really depends on your standards and needs. I have seen a $100 sword with cheap fittings, poor workmanship and a block of a tsuka that was rewrapped in duct tape, cut satisfactorily for over 10 years. the owner was very happy with it and it served them well. Interesting. I never actually knew the same was inlaid. Of course, I've only seen examples out of China where in all cases, the same was glued. Is inlaying of the samegawa what's traditionally called for in nihonto?
I'm wondering if this is something that could be done on a custom order?
BTW, have you any experience working on swords from Hanbon Forge? If so, what are your thoughts on those offerings?
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Feb 3, 2020 22:13:39 GMT
Sometimes, the tsuka slot for the same is just too shallow and makes it stick out a bit. I have a 2 years old Ryukin custom where the samegawa is either glued on top or in a too shallow slot. I intend to take it apart for refit, because why not, it's cheap and will be my first serious project, a good time to look under the hood of the thing so to speak.
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Post by sacredcompass on Feb 3, 2020 23:33:43 GMT
I am picky about tsuka work and not just because I practice tsukamaki (I am my own worst critic) but I have not yet seen what I would consider to be a well wrapped tsuka from jkoo. I've seen some that clearly had the samegawa laid on top of the core instead of inlaid, which could lead to shifting when the glue heats up and also makes the tsuka look boxy. I have seen very sloppy diamonds and reversed end knots(most ebay seller tsuka are prone to this) and doubling up of ito near the kashira and so on. it depends on what you feel looks good to you. it also may not be so easy to swap things out later on if the nakago, ha and mune-machi and other elements you can't see are not in good shape. it makes the work difficult and sometimes impossible. red flags like mentioned above could also be indicating the use of poor quality wood, cracks and splits and a host of other issues. many of the aesthetic issues won't mean much functionally, the sword could still be a great cutter but again, spotting obvious flaws like this usually means there are some or many other issues to be found. as I said, it really depends on your standards and needs. I have seen a $100 sword with cheap fittings, poor workmanship and a block of a tsuka that was rewrapped in duct tape, cut satisfactorily for over 10 years. the owner was very happy with it and it served them well. Interesting. I never actually knew the same was inlaid. Of course, I've only seen examples out of China where in all cases, the same was glued. Is inlaying of the samegawa what's traditionally called for in nihonto?
I'm wondering if this is something that could be done on a custom order?
BTW, have you any experience working on swords from Hanbon Forge? If so, what are your thoughts on those offerings?
The panels are inlaid but the full wraps are glued right? I even saw some examples of a full-and-a-half wrap on another website: www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/samewrapping.html   I'm also very curious as to what a boxy tsuka looks like. |
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 4, 2020 0:07:31 GMT
Interesting. I never actually knew the same was inlaid. Of course, I've only seen examples out of China where in all cases, the same was glued. Is inlaying of the samegawa what's traditionally called for in nihonto?
I'm wondering if this is something that could be done on a custom order? BTW, have you any experience working on swords from Hanbon Forge? If so, what are your thoughts on those offerings?
The panels are inlaid but the full wraps are glued right? I even saw some examples of a full-and-a-half wrap on another website: www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/samewrapping.htmlI'm also very curious as to what a boxy tsuka looks like. yes, samegawa panels have been used traditionally, along with full wraps of course and the correct way to use panels is to inlay them into slots carved in the omote and ura side of the tsuka core. this helps it stay in place and it also allows for a proper and more pleasing overall shape. many makers just lay the strips down onto the surface of the core, which can lead to the edges being seen and felt through the tsukamaki. it can also shift side to side and up and down over time and or with use. most of the time only a gooey "fly paper" type strip of adhesive is used to secure these panes and it heats up and becomes loose very easily with use. plus, it gets even worse when the tsukamaki is also loose. the pics above showing full tsuka wraps were done by craftsman with a lot of knowledge and skill and this is typically NOT what you will find on the optional full wraps offered by most production sword sellers. I've uncovered some nightmare tsuka with these full wrap options and not only are they not properly applied and look horrible but they can actually be more of a risk since a great deal of wood was removed from the cores to allow for the thickness of the skin. now when you start with questionable wood and craftsmanship to begin with, the last thing you want to do is remove a lot more wood. while samegawa can add some strength and protection to a core when done right, when it's done incorrectly, it only becomes a weak point and a potential hazard. not to mention a waste of money and an eyesore. applying a proper full wrap is a lot more difficult than it may seem and there are a lot of steps and techniques and know how that goes into it. here is just one example of a boxy looking tsuka (randomly pulled from the web)  most tsuka should have a slim and elegant oval/egg shape to it and should be smooth and comfortable and attractive. they should not look like a block and should not be uncomfortable to grip. everything you do in making a proper tsuka is reliant on other steps in the process and when you have a poor foundation, everything else suffers. sometimes you may see some edging caused by the use of hishigami that are too thick or improperly applied but when the lines on both sides are so even all the way down, it's almost always a clear sign that the samegawa panels are sitting on top. I'm not saying you should expect perfection when looking for a $300 katana but I can tell you there are definitely some made better than others. it comes down to how much those making them know or care about their craft. |
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Post by Robert in California on Feb 4, 2020 16:31:49 GMT
I would suggest you read carefully, all the Jkoo/Sinosword reviews here at SBG, in the Reviews section.
All the tsukas are "standard Jkoo" style, except one.
The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana review has a custom "hour glass" tsuka.
RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Feb 4, 2020 16:46:08 GMT
btw, the last two Jkoo swords I have recently received look like the habaki fit is good (good fit assembled...have not yet taken them apart though). If you do order from Jkoo/Sinosword, tell Van Yang you want good habaki-to-nakago fit like he did for Robert Hamilton. Now if you have a special specs tsuka shape/design in mind, if the tsukas in the reviews are not what you want, I recommend Cottontail Customs...for a new tsuka.
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Post by sacredcompass on Feb 4, 2020 17:30:37 GMT
I would suggest you read carefully, all the Jkoo/Sinosword reviews here at SBG, in the Reviews section. All the tsukas are "standard Jkoo" style, except one. The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana review has a custom "hour glass" tsuka. RinC I'm currently making an hour-glass/Rikko tsuka, but it's a long one (20 inches) for a pseudo-nagamaki and as I was shaping it down with a planar I ended up leaving only a slight curve to it- I feel like a regular nagamaki looks really odd with a normal katana style tsuka shape but the tsuka I'm working on is too long for my current skill level to shape it seamlessly. Mine looks particularly odd because the blade is a tatami-cutter beater, I'm still trying to figure out the design for this. I added a small groove similar to the maedare-gise (Round & Half) wrap so the inside of the skin goes in more and I'm currently clamping it down to dry it and see how it looks in about 6-8 hours or so. It's been bugging me for weeks now that I can't seem to get the shape I want just right. I might stop by the Home Depot again just to buy two more of those 98 cent clamps, this thing is too long for only 6 clamps. |
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 4, 2020 17:52:24 GMT
I would suggest you read carefully, all the Jkoo/Sinosword reviews here at SBG, in the Reviews section. All the tsukas are "standard Jkoo" style, except one. The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana review has a custom "hour glass" tsuka. RinC I'm currently making an hour-glass/Rikko tsuka, but it's a long one (20 inches) for a pseudo-nagamaki and as I was shaping it down with a planar I ended up leaving only a slight curve to it- I feel like a regular nagamaki looks really odd with a normal katana style tsuka shape but the tsuka I'm working on is too long for my current skill level to shape it seamlessly. Mine looks particularly odd because the blade is a tatami-cutter beater, I'm still trying to figure out the design for this. I added a small groove similar to the maedare-gise (Round & Half) wrap so the inside of the skin goes in more and I'm currently clamping it down to dry it and see how it looks in about 6-8 hours or so. It's been bugging me for weeks now that I can't seem to get the shape I want just right. I might stop by the Home Depot again just to buy two more of those 98 cent clamps, this thing is too long for only 6 clamps. What are you planing with? I use the same small finger planes and scrapers I use for violins on tsuka and saya details. |
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Post by sacredcompass on Feb 4, 2020 18:11:59 GMT
I'm currently making an hour-glass/Rikko tsuka, but it's a long one (20 inches) for a pseudo-nagamaki and as I was shaping it down with a planar I ended up leaving only a slight curve to it- I feel like a regular nagamaki looks really odd with a normal katana style tsuka shape but the tsuka I'm working on is too long for my current skill level to shape it seamlessly. Mine looks particularly odd because the blade is a tatami-cutter beater, I'm still trying to figure out the design for this. I added a small groove similar to the maedare-gise (Round & Half) wrap so the inside of the skin goes in more and I'm currently clamping it down to dry it and see how it looks in about 6-8 hours or so. It's been bugging me for weeks now that I can't seem to get the shape I want just right. I might stop by the Home Depot again just to buy two more of those 98 cent clamps, this thing is too long for only 6 clamps. What are you planing with? I use the same small finger planes and scrapers I use for violins on tsuka and saya. It's a Japanese planar, I didn't know there were finger planes- that's interesting. I'm gonna look some up and grab one if I can afford it. |
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 4, 2020 19:26:36 GMT
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Post by sacredcompass on Feb 4, 2020 20:58:44 GMT
this is a jkoo/sinosword "full wrap" tsuka I took apart a little while back what you can't see here was how bloated this made the finished tsuka look. it was an eyesore and uncomfortable to hold. I believe it also cost about $30 extra to have it done. Wow, that looks really choppy- and I thought my amateur work was bad. Even my low-grade same doesn't look as bad as this... |
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Post by jyamada on Feb 4, 2020 21:55:04 GMT
this is a jkoo/sinosword "full wrap" tsuka I took apart a little while back what you can't see here was how bloated this made the finished tsuka look. it was an eyesore and uncomfortable to hold. I believe it also cost about $30 extra to have it done. Thanks for sharing. Not surprising. |
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Post by amstel78 on Feb 4, 2020 22:25:14 GMT
I would suggest you read carefully, all the Jkoo/Sinosword reviews here at SBG, in the Reviews section. All the tsukas are "standard Jkoo" style, except one. The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana review has a custom "hour glass" tsuka. RinC Thanks. Will do. I've been speaking to Van Yang who says they can do a haichi profile on a custom order without issue. |
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Post by Robert in California on Feb 5, 2020 0:49:47 GMT
The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana (review section) has a full wrap, slim tsuka. None of mine though. I ask for full wrap even though Van Yang told me he can do a slimmer tsuka with panels. This with the default Jkoo/Sinosword tsuka (only specified one mekugi, 11 inches and full wrap of white rayskin for my stuff). Full wrap adds strength at the cost of bulk on a default tsuka. Doesn't bother me since I have large hands and am tall...also was trying to save money...custom shape tsuka costs more and on my slim budget....
RinC
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Post by amstel78 on Feb 5, 2020 1:00:15 GMT
The Jkoo/Sinosword sanmai katana (review section) has a full wrap, slim tsuka. None of mine though. I ask for full wrap even though Van Yang told me he can do a slimmer tsuka with panels. This with the default Jkoo/Sinosword tsuka (only specified one mekugi, 11 inches and full wrap of white rayskin for my stuff). Full wrap adds strength at the cost of bulk on a default tsuka. Doesn't bother me since I have large hands and am tall...also was trying to save money...custom shape tsuka costs more and on my slim budget.... RinC Haichi profile wouldn't cost me more, even with a full same wrap with large emperor nodes. Price I was quoted with shipping was under $470 for a sanmai laminated and folded blade, brass fittings, full same wrap with silk Ito hishigami and haichi profile tsuka, double hi not to extend past habaki, geometric yokote, and blade hazuya sharpened with Niku. Tsaya is a partial top half wrapped in samegawa. I specified balance not to exceed 5" past tsuba as well. It's not a bad price all things considered. I think Van did promise a money back guarantee that I'd be happy. I guess I'll pull the trigger and find out. |
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Post by haon on Feb 5, 2020 5:27:18 GMT
I ordered my custom katana from JKOO a while ago, it is finished, and the more I read the reviews that came through after I ordered the more I think it was a gamble. And I'm a bad gambler, at least in my experience...
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Post by maewyn on Feb 5, 2020 15:37:46 GMT
Wow this gets funnier and funnier. National level smiths that arent,assistants that are no big deal unless it's for Ronin or Forge Direct,the sky is falling,buy my Longquan swords not his Longquan swords. Now SBG is Jkoo. Lol.Ive held one of each,its possible I suppose. Hilarious. You forgot the forge that isn't a forge being the old forge and not the new forge. Oh yeah,how could I forget that.Lol.What a joke.Even funnier that ANYONE would believe Jkoo stuff is made by a master smith.So much gullibility here its sad.And the comments on Huawei based on reviews here are laughable at best. |
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