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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 20:20:38 GMT
Almost exactly the same! Just with no central rib. Like this:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 20:24:36 GMT
Almost exactly the same! Just with no central rib. Like this: That's great! What I meant, however, was what would it look like with no fittings? Just a bare naked blade? Also, were these peened or glued?
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 20:38:13 GMT
Oh! Yeah, it'd be like this: Sandwiched hilt design, with the guard and grip scales pinned through the blade at five points, three of them hidden under the abalone shell insets; the grip extends all the way towards the blade under the guard plates, and the pin in the middle of the guard goes through both. The tang extension, rectangular near the grip (to keep the pommel from rotating around it) but tapered to square or round at the end, passes through the cylindrical pommel and is peened over a metal peenblock. There should not be any metal disks around the pommel like on the Devil's Edge, I've never seen those on a historical sword, just narrow metal bands fitted around its upper and lower edges (these are fairly clearly shown on that surviving artifact posted upthread). PS. The part of the blade inside the grip should also taper in thickness toward the edges as well as toward the pommel. Not a problem if it's made by forging, but might potentially add quite a bit of time and expense to stock removal.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 20:50:18 GMT
PS. The part of the blade inside the grip should also taper in thickness toward the edges as well as toward the pommel. Not a problem if it's made by forging, but might potentially add quite a bit of time and expense to stock removal. These blades were usually around 5mm thick and tapered to around 2mm at the tip, yes? So how thin should the metal be around the handle?
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 20:59:15 GMT
I'd say around 5mm in the middle of the guard, tapering down to a few millimeters at all extremities save the tang. The widest part of the blade should also be the thinnest, with most of the distal taper happening before it. Other than that it really depends on what it takes to produce good handling dynamics with minimal weight - it should be as light as possible but with a fairly far forward balance, for the ideal combination of power and agility.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 21:53:22 GMT
I'd say around 5mm in the middle of the guard, tapering down to a few millimeters at all extremities save the tang. The widest part of the blade should also be the thinnest, with most of the distal taper happening before it. Other than that it really depends on what it takes to produce good handling dynamics with minimal weight - it should be as light as possible but with a fairly far forward balance, for the ideal combination of power and agility. So it should actually have a distal taper AND a proximal taper. You'd want to reinforce the tip. My, my, this is a lot of grinding. I think a lenticular profile really is fair in this respect. It's kinder to the poor smith.
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 22:10:56 GMT
There's quite a bit of variation, though. Seems that as long as it grows thinner from the center of the guard towards all edges, it should be more or less fine. And of course the lateral taper within the hilt can be skipped with minimal effect as long as you can get the mass distribution right without it. I think the easiest way to get it right would be to cut the profile shape out of 5mm stock and then just gradually remove material from all over until the blade is sharp and of the desired cross-section and the whole feels good to wield.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 22:13:59 GMT
There's quite a bit of variation, though. Seems that as long as it grows thinner in all directions from the center of the guard outwards, it should be more or less fine. I think the easiest way to get it right would be to cut the profile shape out of 5mm stock, then just gradually remove material from all over until the blade is sharp and of the desired cross-section and the whole feels good to wield. I know a couple people who could do this. It would be a fun project to fabricate all the fittings myself.
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 22:27:39 GMT
You also have to keep in mind that this is all based on heavily corroded artifacts, so small details like distal taper are highly debatable - all the museum pieces I've ever seen show both pitting and buildup that are more substantial than the original variation in thickness, so it's very hard to be certain whether features like a reinforced tip were actually there on the original or whether it's just accumulated corrosion... In my original affordable historical design I stuck with a diamond cross-section and minimal distal taper - both also supported by the archaeological record - so that you could do the vast majority of the shaping by simply grinding the whole blank to a 1mm edge all around (apart from the tang). It would also make fitting the hilt components simpler. Another way to ease production and increase authenticity would be to use iron or mild steel instead of high carbon steel, but that might be going too far for the general market.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 17:14:20 GMT
I have an update to share with you all. I ordered a bare blade from Scorpion Swords a while back. It seems ages since this thing was delivered. It was a compromise design from my original sketch, and I thank Chris Palmer for accommodating my request and delivering a fine blade. It's a MONSTER of a sword blade and is outside the realm of historical plausibility, however, it's going to be a super fun fantasy sword project. Here is the premise: In my re-write of the Xena series, the events would take place within a specific period of Greco/Roman history. It would be around the reign of Julius Caesar, and Xena's home polis of Amphipolis was a thriving metropolitan city dominated by trade with Rome. In my re-write, her father was a Spartan and a member of the cult of Ares. The sword that ultimately came into Xena's possession, was an ancestral blade believed to the sword Ares used in his battle with Herakles. After he was wounded by Herakles, he left the sword on the battlefield and it became a relic of the cult of Ares. In actuality, it's just a massive xiphos sword. In another thread on the forum, I documented my struggle to polish this mighty blade after removing a considerable amount of material and changing the profile from hexagonal to lenticular. I was VERY down on myself and was on the brink of abandoning this project for good. I have some happy news. I discovered flap wheels. After learning a few things about belt sanders, I grinded out the deepest marks on the blade and used a series of 12 flap wheels to even the polish and remove marks. I also used files to smooth out the bevels. After a TON of hard work, here are the results: I am so pleased with the results. Now I am in a far more manageable situation, where all I need to do is smooth out the surface by hand with sandpaper, oil, and a lot of patience. My goal is to get the blade to about 220 grit, and then patina the crap out of it. I want to make the blade look like a holy relic, but a blade still capable of being used. I plan on using the vinegar and salt solution method to create pits and such. I have also sourced the materials for the hilt/grip. All of these materials are ready to go when the blade is prepped for my final assembly. My goal is to get this done by my birthday, July 5.
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seth
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Post by seth on May 14, 2021 15:53:15 GMT
That's looking good! Glad to hear the project is back on track. I loved watching Xena too, and I like your re-imagining of her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 0:56:54 GMT
This project is currently in year TWO (I feel so ashamed), but it's nearing completion. I forced a few layers of patina on the blade and made a pommel, which is unfinished. This weekend, I'll peen the pommel on and create the grip and hilt scales. This baby is almost there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 1:45:38 GMT
Just to document what's left. I have various components to assemble. I have African blackwood grip scales, abalone shell inlays in bezel cups, cherry wood (as seen in the pommel) that I intend to age a little bit and add a burned effect, and two brass stampings below. I am currently torn on how to assemble all the components. I can't figure out where to place the stamping and what shape the hilt should be. Here's my current configuration sans a hilt. Any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 14:40:11 GMT
Mulling the following options: Option 1 is similar to what we see on Mycenaean swords. Option 2 might be the ideal way to go as it looks a bit more balanced to my eyes. Since I am not going to weld the stampings onto the blade, does anyone recommend another method? I could use epoxy or JB Weld compound. Small pins?
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jan 25, 2022 14:58:45 GMT
Mulling the following options: Option 1 is similar to what we see on Mycenaean swords. Option 2 might be the ideal way to go as it looks a bit more balanced to my eyes. Since I am not going to weld the stampings onto the blade, does anyone recommend another method? I could use epoxy or JB Weld compound. Small pins? Are you certain you want the brass stampings on the blade? They would be excellent scabbard decorations as well. Have you considered brazing them on? A setup for brazing can be relatively inexpensive, and you would get a better hold than epoxy or JB Weld. If you are averse to the brazing option I would use a combination of epoxy (or JB Weld) and pins (brass or copper). You could align the stampings and set the pins through both of them and the hilt section you want to place them. I like the handle shape you are proposing. It looks like it would be both secure and comfortable. I look forward to seeing what you go with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 15:08:10 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. I have never attempted brazing, but I would be willing to give it a shot if I had a trial run on something else. I am not 100% behind adding the stampings to the blade. I considered adding them to the scabbard when I get around to making it, which will have to be in spring so I can do it outdoors.
My only trouble there is the scabbard is going to be an unusual shape on account of the width of the blade. I might have to make one of those scabbards that is partially open on the sides so I can get the blade to rest inside. Do you know what I am referring to? It would be an awkward shape. In that scenario, I am unsure where the stampings would come into play.
Do you feel I may be overdoing it with the decorative elements? I'm willing to entertain different opinions on this. I am never sure until I am in the process of making it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 19:31:21 GMT
This is how I have resolved the various elements (including a scabbard):
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jan 25, 2022 20:28:17 GMT
"In my re-write of the Xena series, "
I wanna be Joxer!
Awesome work by the way!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 20:36:58 GMT
"In my re-write of the Xena series, " I wanna be Joxer! Awesome work by the way! In my re-write, all those supporting characters on the former show would be highly-fictionalized characters Gabrielle based on real people. The real Callisto, for example, could be a successful mercenary whom Xena and Gabrielle despise out of professional jealousy, but other than that there's nothing wrong with her. And Gabrielle's version from her scrolls is pure fiction meant as revenge for Callisto stealing away so many contracts. In the same vein, I imagine Joxer is Gabrielle's ex and is an annoying hanger-on type like Stan Zbornak from The Golden Girls. He shows up all the time and she figuratively and literally slams the door in his face, just like Dorothy does. He, too, was written in such a way that she got her revenge on him.
I think that would be a lot of fun, especially if these various characters were all assembled together and complained bitterly about how they are depicted. It would really show the absolute power of the pen over the sword.
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 25, 2022 20:37:31 GMT
While putting "historical" and "Xena" in the same sentence gives me nausea, I'll point out that, being a contemporary of Herakles, she would have most likely carried a Hittite sword if she had iron, but more probably a Mycenaean bronze rapier as previously noted.
In any event, your design looks good.
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