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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 23, 2019 16:10:35 GMT
Better than the film prop!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 16:13:14 GMT
Better than the film prop! Thanks, Andi! The prop always left something to be desired.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 23, 2019 16:31:15 GMT
I looked at KOA and the Marto replica is about 23" blade 30" overall, which is more like a standard xiphos. I like your design.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 16:37:00 GMT
I looked at KOA and the Marto replica is about 23" blade 30" overall, which is more like a standard xiphos. I like your design. Thanks! The replica by Marto is based on the earliest design of Xena's sword from season one. It underwent a few changes throughout the first season until they arrived at the prop she would use for the duration of the series. THAT prop had a blade that was roughly 30 inches long and a 6 inch long grip/hilt. It was a bit oversized for a xiphos. They tend to top the scales at about 30 inches overall, usually with a 24 inch long blade at the max. Her original sword, the one Marto based their replica on, was scaled down a bit. I like that version better. I think they went with a longer sword because it complimented the relative size of Lucy Lawless, who stands a majestic 5'10!
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Post by MOK on Dec 23, 2019 17:22:34 GMT
5'10" is majestic? Sweet! *says the 5'10" tall guy* There are some relatively very long xiphoi, around 27", 28" or so, but they tend to very narrow. Much like the second from left here but half again as long: (from www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/backbone/rb_1_2.html)Hey, this may be deviating too far from the show design, but, recall that image I posted upthread with the guard plate extending into a little palmette along the grip? You could do that but instead of the palmette have one of those inset gems there. Also, how about slanting the ends of the guard the other way, outward toward the hand? You see that kind of overall shape on several types of bronze age Mediterranean swords. PS. Also, the historical grips tend to be quite short and shapely, with your index and little fingers fitting naturally into the recesses - neck and waist, so to speak - with the guard snuggled between the knuckles of your thumb and index finger and the round pommel right up against the side of your palm. It gives an extremely snug and secure feeling grip - almost identical to a tulwar hilt, indeed. Most of the surviving ones I've seen, as well as all vase paintings I can recall, also show the grip being substantially narrower at the pommel end, enough to let your pinkie curl around it just like your index finger does at the guard end.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 17:44:08 GMT
These are all fantastic suggestions, MOK, and I will definitely take them under advisement. I think I made the grip a bit oversized (at 3.75 inches!) because of the monstrous size of my hands. I could bring it down to 3.5 inches, but that would be the minimum for me. As for the point where the grip and the guard meet, which you are calling a palmette?, I could tweak that a little bit I suppose. There are some fantasy elements here, but that is the point. Let's call this a "historically plausible" design. It's plausible someone was in a jaunty mood and instead of inverting the points of the guard, elected to extend them outward. Or perhaps not. I'll do another sketch and see how it looks!
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Post by MOK on Dec 23, 2019 21:00:38 GMT
This is roughly the kind of thing I was thinking about...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 22:12:08 GMT
MOK, I think we have a winner. I'm gonna start sketching! You are fantastic to collaborate with.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 23:48:06 GMT
This is roughly the kind of thing I was thinking about... How about this, MOK:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 23:48:44 GMT
Mother of pearl inlay is wrong, I think. Abalone is my choice. It has lots of color.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 0:48:08 GMT
I don't think my previous design should go to waste though. It's basically Wonder Woman's sword, because the film prop was also a disaster.
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Post by MOK on Dec 24, 2019 7:13:54 GMT
Yeah, that's starting to get there. I think WW's God Killer design was inspired in large part by Mycenaean swords like these: That last one in particular - if you squint, you can even see how the silhouette of the pommel disk (bereft of the actual organic or mineral pommel it would originally have had) might have morphed into the snake tails they used in the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 16:41:57 GMT
That's another great reference, MOK. Now moving back to your last sketch, the one I tinkered with, is that a midrib or a fuller? Could it be both?
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Post by MOK on Dec 24, 2019 19:46:32 GMT
I was thinking of a raised rib; can't recall ever seeing a xiphos with a fuller. Now, here's why I like using vector drawing programs instead of pen and paper for this kind of thing - the drawing and the measurements are one and the same. If I follow the specified dimensions instead of the drawing, what I get is this: However, if I prioritize the drawing instead and tweak things a bit - make the pommel only 4cm (about 1.5") wide by 3cm tall to keep roughly with the proportions shown in period art and museum pieces (and the original prop, at that); make the guard a little less tall and move the grip-side points 8cm apart (somewhat more than the specified 3"); make the grip a little over 1" wide near the guard, only about 1.25" at the middle and a little under 1" wide near the pommel; and make the blade 3.5cm wide at the narrowest point and 4.5cm at its widest (roughly 1.5" on average) - what I end up with is this: That's 80cm (31.5") long overall, with a 66cm (26") blade and 9cm (3.5") grip. Very large for a xiphos, but still within historical parameters.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 0:33:02 GMT
Nice! Now how could I utilize this information and technology to send a blueprint/pattern to a smith?
P.S. my drawing was actually to scale. I used a ruler.
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Post by MOK on Dec 25, 2019 1:42:38 GMT
Nice! Now how could I utilize this information and technology to send a blueprint/pattern to a smith? Well, email them a picture with detailed measurements, I suppose? Huh. Something musta gone wrong in translation - on my screen, the blade does happen to display exactly 1.5" wide where so marked, but the guard is 4.5" across the top, 3.5" across the bottom and 1.25" tall at its ends, the grip is 4" long, 1.75" at its widest and a hair under 1.5" across the narrow points, and the pommel 2" tall but 2.5" across the bottom...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 1:45:55 GMT
OK, MOK, I sometimes enjoy whiskey while I sketch. It was not exact. Ugh, go back to your vector programs. My sketch is a work of art!!!
Hyperbole aside, I want this sword made.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 3:38:23 GMT
What about a plain sword blade with a lenticular profile? No midrib.
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Post by MOK on Dec 25, 2019 7:26:52 GMT
Meh, I've made worse mistakes stone cold sober. Plain lenticular blade is perfectly fine for a xiphos, too! It's really just an aesthetic choice.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 19:41:01 GMT
However, if I prioritize the drawing instead and tweak things a bit - make the pommel only 4cm (about 1.5") wide by 3cm tall to keep roughly with the proportions shown in period art and museum pieces (and the original prop, at that); make the guard a little less tall and move the grip-side points 8cm apart (somewhat more than the specified 3"); make the grip a little over 1" wide near the guard, only about 1.25" at the middle and a little under 1" wide near the pommel; and make the blade 3.5cm wide at the narrowest point and 4.5cm at its widest (roughly 1.5" on average) - what I end up with is this: That's 80cm (31.5") long overall, with a 66cm (26") blade and 9cm (3.5") grip. Very large for a xiphos, but still within historical parameters. MOK, what would the bare blade look like in this version?
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