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Post by susieqz on Dec 12, 2019 2:13:33 GMT
what exactly defines a machette? dictionary says ag tool n sometimes weapon for savages, you guys are using the word differently.
that frog is clever.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 2:27:16 GMT
what exactly defines a machette? dictionary says ag tool n sometimes weapon for savages, you guys are using the word differently.
that frog is clever.
That's a pretty bunk definition for them to have and for you to follow It's been mostly a cultural tool used in thick woods. Jungles find it most lovable, but they even have their use in bush craft and even gardening Machetes are typically a thin blade that's the same thickness down the length with a ground on edge, typically a sheet of heat treated steel. My island I grew up on find them to be a popular weapon as do people in many parts of south America. They are not anything to look down on, but they are far from perfect at each job they perform
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Post by susieqz on Dec 12, 2019 2:34:40 GMT
why is my cutlass a machete then?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 12, 2019 2:45:01 GMT
Because it has a blade much more like a typical modern machete blade (thin, with little distal taper) than a typical single-edged sword blade (which, depending on the sword, would be either uniformly thicker, or have a much thicker base and lots of distal taper).
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howler
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Post by howler on Dec 12, 2019 2:45:34 GMT
why is my cutlass a machete then? If you liberally use the term machete, you open up the door to Golok, Parang, Bolo, Barong, Enep, Kukri, and others I can't recall at the moment. Utility, farming, bush craft, kitchen tools that were secondary (and sometimes primarily) used as weapons. If you look at Filipino weapons on Kult Of Athena you will see amazing stuff. I think cutlass comes from Caribbean term for machete tool used as a weapon that nations put on a guard (among other things enhancing handling capability) and called a short sword.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 12, 2019 2:47:53 GMT
I've had some old stiff machetes. Actually, old machetes had proper distal taper and some are quite nice! Nothing like the modern idea of a machete which is a cheapo sheet of steel with an edge grind. Just measured the distal taper on 4 of my machetes: 14” blade .097”-.035” (2.5mm-.9mm) 17¾” blade .083”-.040” (2.1mm-1.0mm) Newest machete <month old 18” blade .0.079”-.064” ((2.0mm-1.6mm) 25¾” blade .085”-.055” (2.2mm-1.4mm) These as all of my machetes have stiff blades. The 25" machete has the most flex, to the point it's not the easiest to dig with but far from whippy. Just measured two CS. One of the old Chinese mfg and I started say newer Jungle Machete but I see that one has been discontinued. Too bad I like it and it’s pushing 8-10 years now. Neither have a distal taper being .116” (2.9mm) thick and .112” (2.8mm) thick. Both work fine, CS makes good machetes but as well as the perform the former 4 feel livelier and the new one is fast becoming a favourite. Even to the point I considered going back for a tooled leather sheath, which for me would be a waste.
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Post by pgandy on Dec 12, 2019 2:55:54 GMT
why is my cutlass a machete then? I think cutlass comes from Caribbean term for machete tool used as a weapon that nations put on a guard (among other things enhancing handling capability) and called a short sword. The English speaking islands in the Caribbean use the word machete and cutlass interchangeably.
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howler
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Post by howler on Dec 12, 2019 2:59:02 GMT
I think cutlass comes from Caribbean term for machete tool used as a weapon that nations put on a guard (among other things enhancing handling capability) and called a short sword. The English speaking islands in the Caribbean use the word machete and cutlass interchangeably. Yup.
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Post by pgandy on Dec 12, 2019 3:00:21 GMT
susieqz Why so concerned that you have a machete? You were perfectly happy with its performance. Certainly it is not performing less well now. “A rose by any other name....”
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Post by susieqz on Dec 12, 2019 3:14:47 GMT
i have no way to measure distal taper, but i can see it on my sword. seems to narrow by about half. machetes are used by people that can't afford anything better. not a proper lady's weapon.
sure looks morelike a short sabrey thing to me. what's a sabre?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 12, 2019 3:27:36 GMT
i have no way to measure distal taper, but i can see it on my sword. seems to narrow by about half. machetes are used by people that can't afford anything better. not a proper lady's weapon. sure looks morelike a short sabrey thing to me. what's a sabre? A sabre is a curved single handed weapon, around 30" and up. I use that cut off as some cutlasses got to 29" and the shorter infantry sabres were about 30.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 3:28:51 GMT
why is my cutlass a machete then? Why look down on the term machete? It's a preferred weapon and tool of many people today.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 12, 2019 4:03:09 GMT
so, length is the determinative factor seperating cutlasses from sabres? hmmm.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 12, 2019 10:17:47 GMT
These names (sabre, cutlass, machete, and also others like hanger and even sword) don't have strict definitions. They overlap. Take "sabre" for example. Some insist they must be straight, and other say that straight sabres are OK (and what about forward-curved and recurved?). Some insist they are single-edged (a partial back edge is OK), and others are happy with double-edged sabres. Some impose a minimum length. Consider these two weapons: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CTK36024HC&name=Condor+Naval+Cutlass+ (which, of course, you're familiar with) www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS97DRMS&name=Cold+Steel+Cutlass+MacheteThe blades are of similar length and thickness. The Condor is narrower. Are these cutlasses or machetes? Would we call one a cutlass and the other a machete? Is a machete always at least part-tool, and never all-weapon? These machetes are purely made as weapons: Is a sword always a pure weapon, and not part-tool? No. These swords were made more as tools than weapons: The funny thing is that there was also a cutlass based on it:
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 12, 2019 13:27:45 GMT
Using KoA’s figures you have some distal taper, 2.9mm-2.6mm. You have a bad hang up with machetes. It is true some machetes are cheap in the strictest since of the word. Others are just inexpensive. However to say that machetes are only used by those that can’t afford better is a big fallacy. There are jobs best done with thin bladed, light machetes. Harvesting my bananas then falling the trees is one. I have no sword nor know of any that would do the job better than the machetes I used. Ditto for grass cutting to name only two. If machetes are cheap, why the $127 price tag on the Condor? The last machete I bought was just over 4 USD. It was inexpensive, not cheap. I didn’t buy it because of the price but I wanted it and it is proving to be a good one, a favourite if you will. To continue with Timo’s line, from the Phillippines: And a carry method when no belt loop is provided. I prefer this in many ways to a belt loop or frog as there is nothing slapping and banging my side nor swinging around possibly causing a trip hazard. It depends on the sword. I would generally carry it in a more vertical position, but a quicky for the photo.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 12, 2019 17:02:27 GMT
i didn't start this thread to criticize machetes. i was criticizing windlass.
my problem with machetes is that they are ag tools. they can be used as weapons but that's secondary.
i just prefer things made specifically to kill.
in fact, i now don't even care for reproductions. my guns were made soley to kill. i want swords of the same nature.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 12, 2019 20:28:22 GMT
i didn't start this thread to criticize machetes. i was criticizing windlass. my problem with machetes is that they are ag tools. they can be used as weapons but that's secondary. i just prefer things made specifically to kill. in fact, i now don't even care for reproductions. my guns were made soley to kill. i want swords of the same nature. Then antiques are what you want. I would offer up the Italian troopers sabre I have in the classifieds but that's not so much a rough and tumble sword as it is a sword designed around Italian sabre theory.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 12, 2019 20:33:08 GMT
Or custom but that's a huge price difference.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 13, 2019 0:40:23 GMT
thanks. i'll pass on customs. i want originals : battlefield weapons. how do i learn to spot fakes?
ideally, i need a very nimble sabre that is not in great demand by collectors. i can accept rust if the sword is sound.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 13, 2019 0:55:44 GMT
thanks. i'll pass on customs. i want originals : battlefield weapons. how do i learn to spot fakes? ideally, i need a very nimble sabre that is not in great demand by collectors. i can accept rust if the sword is sound. Go on Kult of Athena and look at the windlass, universal swords of India swords. Googling "fake (insert sword here) will also get you good results. Italian stuff isn't in high demand and usually fairly nimble. Avoid cavalry troopers and dress swords as the former is a heavier class and the latter a toy.
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