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Post by admin on Nov 8, 2019 7:31:06 GMT
It started back in March/April when without much rhyme or reason many swords being shipped to Europe were suddenly either confiscated or returned to sender. We have seen this kind of thing before, but in the past it always 'went away' of its own accord. But this time, things are different..
At this stage of the game I can only really report on what the SBG Sword Store and it's affiliated network of Master distributors and manufacturers are experiencing - and that is a WIDENING of the problem to such a degree that we have been forced to withdraw from the international sword market entirely until we know what is going on.
Another round of 'ship the sword, roll the dice and cross your fingers' will result in losses that no sword business can afford to absorb (just in case you somehow didn't know, swords - and functional swords in particular - tend to have extremely thin profit margins. So when we get hit by this kind of thing, it REALLY hits hard)..
Here are some examples of the stickers we are seeing now on swords that are actually returned to us.
Item Prohibited by whom exactly? It's legal at both source and destination..
Okay, this one is a little clearer - though tends to suggest to me that someone is being lazy. 'may contain potentially hazardous, prohibited or restricted items' casts a stupidly wide net.
And so, the tale of these stickers is - it really does look like the days of international shipping with USPS (excluding Canada) are rapidly coming to and end - BUT, and this is the twist, at the very same time the opposite is happening in Australia..
The photos of this particular sword were taken from a sword being shipped not to Europe but to Australia - leaving only UPS, Fed Ex, etc as an option (more or less tripling the price and also comes with additional charges, tariffs, GST, PST and every other charge they can think of).
But in Australia, there is the opposite problem - Brendan from Fable Blades brought it to my attention that at exactly the same time we cannot use the postal service to ship swords TO Australia, the private companies (DHL, Fed Ex, etc) are refusing to ship them FROM Australia while the postal service IN Australia is still willing to ship them overseas...
Yeah, it's a mess. And it's very hard to pin down the root cause..
WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?
From my end, I will be doing all I can to find out what is REALLY going on and why swords are being targeted like this. But in the meantime, I would like to hear from our members outside of North America about their recent experiences, both good, bad and normal.
I am especially interested to see what the current status and stance is of the various third party shipping companies such as Access USA, etc - again, both good, bad and indifferent.
Essentially, we need to get as much info as possible on this situation so we can find some kind of solution. So please share what you have experienced and together let's see what we can come up with...
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 8, 2019 9:00:17 GMT
On first sight the problem is the airline which refuses to transport the swords. The interesting thing is the reason why the airline(s) doesn't ship them. Who prohibits the shipping of swords, the airline itself due to internal rules and/or experienced problems?
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Post by Dandelion on Nov 8, 2019 9:41:01 GMT
I know Holger has experienced serious beating considering these issues, and we dont want to discuss this any longer... but WHY is there a obvious difference between private sales and business sales? We just keep on receiving swords from China sellers (Sinio, Ryan), pakistani sellers (not UK based), US forumites and facebookers... no arguing here, just interest, because we dont see these things happen (YET!)...
UPDATE: KOA still does shipping via UPS; insanely expensive, but they do. Strange...
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Post by Siward on Nov 8, 2019 18:55:37 GMT
I’m not surprised Paul.
This is what’s happened to me for my last 3 purchases, 1 from KOA and 2 separate orders from Lockwood to the UK.
All three were meant to be shipped via USPS. All three actually ended up going via UPS even though both vendors insist they had initiated the shipping via USPS.
Two of the three whilst flying swiftly across the Atlantic then went through extended customs clearance where I had to prove costs and prove they met UK weapons legislation. For those two, it took approximately a month just to clear customs and the charges I had to pay were higher than a previous Albion i’d also bought from KOA earlier in the year (which also cleared customs in a matter of days).
The third sword, my second Lockwood, still hasn’t cleared customs yet.
So, in summary, something has changed just since the conversations I had with Holg in the original thread and since my KOA purchase earlier in the year.
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Post by Dandelion on Nov 8, 2019 19:14:04 GMT
I’m not surprised Paul. This is what’s happened to me for my last 3 purchases, 1 from KOA and 2 separate orders from Lockwood to the UK. All three were meant to be shipped via USPS. All three actually ended up going via UPS even though both vendors insist they had initiated the shipping via USPS. Two of the three whilst flying swiftly across the Atlantic then went through extended customs clearance where I had to prove costs and prove they met UK weapons legislation. For those two, it took approximately a month just to clear customs and the charges I had to pay were higher than a previous Albion i’d also bought from KOA earlier in the year (which also cleared customs in a matter of days). The third sword, my second Lockwood, still hasn’t cleared customs yet. So, in summary, something has changed just since the conversations I had with Holg in the original thread and since my KOA purchase earlier in the year. Dear god, we just ordered a Kris Cutlery Kopis from KOA, ultra expensive UPS... now we are scared a little bit. Should the order be cancelled? "Private" orders always seem to go through with USPS, the last hazzle we had was with a wrong declaration.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:54:40 GMT
It looks like that the problem is with the commercial airlines, who carry the bulk of USPS shipments. Years ago I worked a lot with our shipping department in getting orders shipped to the EU, and the vast majority of shipments flew as cargo on commercial (passenger carrying) jets. Shipments had to conform to the rules for cargo on their jets. UPS, DHL, and FedEx have their own airplanes, so they have different rules. From the labels Paul showed, it's the airlines who are rejecting swords. Swords coming out of China would likely go on Chinese carriers, who would have their own rules.
You can argue legality at destination, customs, and whatnot all you want, but if the airline says no, it doesn't fly. Best bet is to stick with UPS and hope it goes on one of their planes, although that's not a guarantee. UPS sometimes subcontract some of the cargo onto a commercial carrier, which means the package falls under the commercial carriers' rules.
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Post by Dandelion on Nov 8, 2019 20:46:48 GMT
So you only can trick USPS by declaring it as "movie replica", "fantasy replica" and so on... Dangerous for a company, I assume?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 20:52:54 GMT
So you only can trick USPS by declaring it as "movie replica", "fantasy replica" and so on... Dangerous for a company, I assume? Extremely dangerous. We were in chemical industry and the fines under US law for false declaration was $25,000/day/item, and up to 10 years in prison for the person whose name was on the manifest.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 8, 2019 20:54:43 GMT
They use X-ray, first picture in the OP.
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Post by Dandelion on Nov 8, 2019 21:42:40 GMT
They use X-ray, first picture in the OP. xray = röntgen?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 8, 2019 21:54:22 GMT
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Post by pellius on Nov 8, 2019 22:29:35 GMT
For what it’s worth, I bought an antique bayonet from a UK dealer recently. I’m in Florida. It went door to door in four days. Not a sword, and leaving (not entering) the UK, but it sure didn’t make the trip on a boat.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 22:48:59 GMT
They use X-ray, first picture in the OP. xray = röntgen? Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 22:51:49 GMT
For what it’s worth, I bought an antique bayonet from a UK dealer recently. I’m in Florida. It went door to door in four days. Not a sword, and leaving (not entering) the UK, but it sure didn’t make the trip on a boat. How was it shipped? The carrier may be an option for US to EU.
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Post by pellius on Nov 8, 2019 22:56:39 GMT
For what it’s worth, I bought an antique bayonet from a UK dealer recently. I’m in Florida. It went door to door in four days. Not a sword, and leaving (not entering) the UK, but it sure didn’t make the trip on a boat. How was it shipped? The carrier may be an option for US to EU. Wups. I should’ve included that info. On my end, it was shipped USPS (to a PO Box) No signature or street address required.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 23:02:45 GMT
How was it shipped? The carrier may be an option for US to EU. Wups. I should’ve included that info. On my end, it was shipped USPS (to a PO Box) No signature or street address required. USPS was the carrier out of the UK? I would expect they would handle the delivery stateside, but I didn't know they had shipping offices in foreign countries.
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Post by MOK on Nov 8, 2019 23:50:45 GMT
One thing that complicates this is that there are probably almost entirely separate sets of regulations concerning imports and exports at both ends of the route. One set of rules for what's okay to send out of the country, another for what's okay to bring in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 23:58:19 GMT
One thing that complicates this is that there are probably almost entirely separate sets of regulations concerning imports and exports at both ends of the route. One set of rules for what's okay to send out of the country, another for what's okay to bring in. ^^^^^^ Definitely! We used to transfer formulas for manufacture at our locations in the EU, and I frequently found it impossible to have components shipped from US to the EU, ostensibly because the US item didn't meet health and safety standards. But it was ok once we identified an EU supplier who made the same stuff. It was also ok to export the EU material to the US. I remember having the EU and US materials analysed looking for the differences... never found any and we went down to the ppt levels looking for them.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 9, 2019 0:19:00 GMT
Yeah, and we EU guys know that those standards are made not only for health and safety reasons. I assume there's not a big difference for trade into the other direction. But can this be the reason for the latest problems with certain air carriers shipping swords?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 0:28:43 GMT
Yeah, and we EU guys know that those standards are made not only for health and safety reasons. I assume there's not a big difference for trade into the other direction. But can this be the reason for the latest problems with certain air carriers shipping swords? My suspicion is that shipping a 'weapon' into the EU entails extra paperwork, which adds cost. Not a problem for a carrier like UPS because they ship a lot of stuff that's going to trigger extra paperwork. But for a commercial airline, extra paperwork is extra cost, so it's likely more cost effective to just refuse to carry it. I doubt swords and knives are going to be a problem coming into the US. US Customs has other priorities.
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