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Post by neopolitan on Sept 11, 2019 23:56:58 GMT
This entire post can be summed up with: I wanted the idea of carrying around a sheathed sword at the belt level to be applied to an umbrella.
Anyway, the details: There are a lot of sword makers from what I've seen in the "List of Custom Sword Smiths" pinned topic, but in addition to being completely new to any of this, I don't know where to start when it comes to my request since what I want isn't even a sword to begin with, it is just the scabbard, and said scabbard would be for an umbrella. Let me clarify that I am not asking about an umbrella with a blade in it -- I am not a sword collector and have no interest in actual swords. Nevertheless, since my idea was to have my cane umbrellas taken with me sheathed just like a sword, hanging to the side of my waist just like a sword (I am unsure about the difference between belt and frog attachment options), and thus being in a hard-material scabbard just like a sword, this seemed like the place to ask. I hope I am even in the right ballpark. I am asking here because at least one half of my request has a basis in swords, but I am wondering if the other half -- the whole not actually being a sword thing -- would be a problem, or if there is anyone that not only makes scabbards, but is willing to be rather creative and make one that isn't even supposed to contain a sword. And if they would be willing to paint it with some custom designs that would just be wizard. I also don't know exactly how to phrase my query because a lot of the terms I am using here I am new to and may be using incorrectly, like the difference between Sheath and Scabbard which I am still unsure of. I take it that Scabbards are intended mainly for swords and are made of hard material? The only thing throwing me off is reading how they are called such because they are intended 'for' swords, not necessarily just because the material is hard. I'd also probably have to set my sights on a single good umbrella maker so that the umbrellas I use would have consistent size measurements and fit properly into whatever scabbard is made; I presume the hard material would make correct sizing considerably more necessary. Is this a place where I could find such a person(s) or have I made a terrible miscalculation? At the end of the pinned topic "List of Custom Sword Smiths" it talks of those who make primarily custom scabbards. Would making an umbrella version like this even be on anyone's radar, or is this all about swords only?
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christain
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Post by christain on Sept 12, 2019 0:07:28 GMT
First off, most people in this hobby refer to a 'scabbard' as being made of a stiff material like wood, and usually covered in leather with a metal protective tip called a 'chape'. These are mainly for swords, but some smaller knives have hard scabbards. A 'sheath' is usually for knives, and made of a flexible material like leather or ballistic-type cloth. Some sheaths are made of hard plastic, so I guess, technically that would be a scabbard. A bit confusing, I know. Which are you looking for? It would probably be pretty expensive to have a scabbard custom-made for an umbrella.
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Post by neopolitan on Sept 12, 2019 1:23:06 GMT
Thank you for responding and clarifying. From your description, scabbard is definitely what I had in mind, since my primary idea is that whatever holds the umbrella is a hard material. The other additional requirement I'd probably need to worry about is that it is water resistant though.
Since I was hoping I'd only ever need one for a lifetime, I'd be willing to invest in it. How expensive approximately might it be? I have been saving up so I hope the ballpark estimate would be somewhere in the ... ballpark. Do you know who might be interested in doing a completely custom scabbard like this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 1:44:19 GMT
The profile of an umbrella is basically round... scabbards are flat to accommodate a flat blade. It sounds like something could be made by using a cylinder as a base and covering it with leather or whatever you would prefer. Maybe a thin wall copper pipe as base?
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christain
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Post by christain on Sept 12, 2019 2:25:58 GMT
The profile of an umbrella is basically round... scabbards are flat to accommodate a flat blade. It sounds like something could be made by using a cylinder as a base and covering it with leather or whatever you would prefer. Maybe a thin wall copper pipe as base? I was thinking along those lines earlier. Maybe PVC pipe covered in leather. It could be held by an adjustable belted sword frog, and the leather could be treated for waterproofing. Maybe with beeswax. sword frog
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Post by MOK on Sept 12, 2019 8:32:07 GMT
A large diameter bamboo tube could also make a good core for such a thing; you could lacquer or paint it, or wrap it in leather or cloth (and lacquer or paint that). Overall, I think this would actually resemble a quiver or arrow case more than a sword scabbard... I'm sure there are people out there who would gladly make one for you. Maybe not scabbard makers, specifically, but there is in fact a whole cottage industry that makes odd things very much like this for renfaires and cosplayers.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Sept 12, 2019 14:10:24 GMT
Do a search for 'Sir Vitus scabbard' This will give some ideas. These are made for SCA rattan swords that are round bladed...probably perfect for what you want.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 14, 2019 0:29:39 GMT
Another idea is the western saddle rifle Scabbard, I could see one fitting an umbrella and looking nice very easily with a little tweaking for a belt system.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Sept 14, 2019 0:48:07 GMT
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Post by neopolitan on Sept 16, 2019 23:03:29 GMT
Thank you everyone for your help -- I really do appreciate how friendly this community is. As far as suggestions to building a scabbard, that would probably be a last resort given how my skills are nearly 100% in software engineering and computer work so building physical objects with my hands is something that has historically ended poorly. I do gather the basic gist of it, and I could forward those ideas to whomever I find. Question regarding frogs: I just got an umbrella holster from Etsy but I am having trouble getting the sling to reliably stay in one place without lots of movement so that the umbrella doesn't start tilting off-direction and have either the top/bottom start tilting outwards (and by extension, hitting people). The sword frog looks like a very good interim solution instead of the holster: I take it that any belt will do for it to connect to, and if properly hooked up, that 'swinging' motion would be at least somewhat neutralised? Mainly the sling I have now sometimes slides up and down my shoulder, which can sometimes drastically affect the angle the umbrella rests at and I'd rather it be at least a little more consistent. As for the scabbard itself, looks like I have some links and some search terms to go through, see what works. And not just related to umbrellas, the very concept of LARP weapons sounds awesome! Thank you very much christain for that link -- I'm actually interested in more than just scabbards from them now . I had no idea such a thing existed. So, to sum up 1) with exception of possibly LARP and Sir Vitus scabbards due to the unique nature of those weapons, I am not really likely to find a sword maker who can do this. 2) Instead, the concept maps better to quivers or rifle scabbards or other containers that have more of a cylindrical shape to them by their nature. I may want to wear it like a sword scabbard but beyond that it isn't anything like one. 3) I can sort of make a 'halfway' solution without a scabbard by just using a frog, and that (may?) cut down on the swinging I get with the sling holster form I currently have. 3a) Said frog could potentially be used for other scabbards that do not have existing attachments built in. 4) If all else fails, I can ask someone who does cosplay/renfair stuff about it, and there are some construction ideas offered in this topic I can work with them with to make sure the scabbard is sturdy. Thanks again everyone for chiming in with ideas. I'll take a deeper look into some of the other links/things everyone mentioned soon.
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christain
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Post by christain on Sept 17, 2019 1:20:22 GMT
Ummm...you just did ask someone who does cosplay and Ren-Fair.... ME. I also do reenactment and currently doing self-study of HEMA. (Historical European Martial Arts) I do wood-working for a living and have been making knives and leather-work *probably* since before you were born. PM me here if I may be of more assistance. BTW---Do you know the term--'baldric'? A baldric is an over-the-shoulder sling that holds a sword or other weapon in place at hip level. The amount of forward and backwards swing all depends on the movement of the wearer. If you are just strolling along, the baldric/sword is right at your hip...if you are running, you hold the sword in your hand as you go. This keeps it from flailing around wildly and knocking your own teeth out. Same as walking in a crowded area, just hold the sword/umbrella in your hand in front of you while still attached to the baldric.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Sept 17, 2019 2:50:43 GMT
In my country, Costa Rica, one method of carry is on the back. A cloth tube with a strap sewed to each end, for a factory job. Sometimes I see a thick cord or small rope tied to each end of the umbrella.
You mention a carry about waist high. In that case possibly a PVC tube could be used as the heart of the thing and build from there. Cap the lower end with a PVC cap. Take a plastic strip and a hot air gun to make an attaching device for the belt. Either secure both ends to the tube for maximum strength and thread your belt through, or the upper end only for easy attaching and removal by sliding over the belt. That would be the basis and decorate or modify as desired.
Personally I use a sombrilla. That’s a small umbrellas that telescopes and folds to a small package. I carry mine in my back pack, but as it measures only 6½” it would fit my hip pocket. I’ve seen men carry these with a hooked, or ‘J’ handle by placing the hook over their belt. Women prefer sombrillas as they can put them in their purse and use them for rain protection as well as a parasol when the sun is out.
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Post by MOK on Sept 17, 2019 4:11:20 GMT
Yeah, there are plenty of simple cloth sheaths on a sling in the umbrella market. Like this one. Oh, and I hate those folding umbrellas - they're always so small they can just barely cover my shoulders, and I've never found one that won't turn inside out in even a moderate wind...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 22:54:45 GMT
Question regarding frogs: I just got an umbrella holster from Etsy but I am having trouble getting the sling to reliably stay in one place without lots of movement so that the umbrella doesn't start tilting off-direction and have either the top/bottom start tilting outwards (and by extension, hitting people). If you figure out an answer to this one, I'd love to hear it, too. The only solution I've ever found is to keep one hand on the pommel to keep it from swinging around while I walked. I did get a viking sword and scabbard from the latest KOA mystery box, so I have to try that one. It's more of a vertical carry, so it at least looks like it would be more stable. I also enjoy Ren Faires, great fun, especially if you attend in costume. I dress as a medieval friar and get a lot of people coming up to take pictures with me... although about half of them think I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi. I blame the beard.
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Post by neopolitan on Sept 23, 2019 3:58:34 GMT
Sorry christain, I did not know. In hindsight the profile images of you and others make the renfair stuff apparent. Personally I've never been to a renfair in my entire life; it didn't click immediately . I'll follow up in a PM for the rest. Thank you. I had not heard of baldrics before so looked them up. It looks like they might be able to solve the functional side of my problems immediately actually. The sling I got for my umbrella holster is not actually that sturdy -- there are no holes in the leather so it's held up by just looping the leather through a little loop twice. I've already had it collapse once. Thankfully its the sling that is the problem here not the holster so I can swap it out with a baldric, or perhaps just a ravenswoodleather.com/belts_hangers/accessory_baldric_strap_clips/Hoping the shoulder pad stops the sliding up/down motion (I'll follow up anyway once I get it at how well it worked). I take it what I linked isn't an actual baldric but just the shoulder strap of one, but given that it is effectively becoming a sling replacement I don't think that should be too bad? I wanted to avoid putting too much attention on the baldric (except the Amazon one which I definitely want at some point). The baldric strap also looks like it would be easy to transfer to a scabbard later as long as the scabbard also has D-loops (otherwise I would need a frog and a full baldric with a belt since all my dresses lack belt loops, pockets, or anything useful) Oh, and I hate those folding umbrellas - they're always so small they can just barely cover my shoulders, and I've never found one that won't turn inside out in even a moderate wind... Aesthetics of what I am going for aside, just to be able to keep an umbrella with me that actually works instead of those tiny instant-break ones is well worth this adventure.
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Post by Leo Flandria on Sept 26, 2019 15:52:09 GMT
I would try first to measure the right diameter with plastic pipes. Then make a polished Stainless steel (thin wall) pipe with a sturdy (silver leather) belt. I think that the double Golf umbrellas from G4Free Automatic Open Golf Umbrella Extra Large 62/68 Inch Windproof Oversize Waterproof Stick Umbrellas for Men Women (exists also in smaller sizes)
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Post by Leo Flandria on Sept 26, 2019 16:24:22 GMT
Thin wall Titanium pipe ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 17:50:46 GMT
Aluminum pipe would also be an option, very light, and they can be had anodized for different colors.
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Post by demonskull on Sept 27, 2019 11:48:16 GMT
A capped PVC pipe is the best option so far. Be sure to drill a hole in the cap so water doesn't collect in the scabbard when the umbrella is out.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Sept 27, 2019 13:42:05 GMT
A drain hole is an excellent idea. Not only will the empty scabbard collect water during a rain but when returning a wet umbrella. I carry a plastic bag in my back pack for a wet sombrilla. It also serves as a cover if I set on a wet bench or whatever.
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