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Post by mumbles on Aug 17, 2019 1:04:12 GMT
Hi I am new here.
What is the best way to put a good sharp edge on a sword? When I say best, I particularly mean what method is a novice less likely to screw up the blade? I am mainly talking about European style swords but also include production Japanese style such as the cold steel katana.
Also, I have read that the recommend angle to put on a sword is a 30 degree angle. Does this mean 30 degrees per side of the blade or 30 dgrees in total, i.e. 15 degrees each side.
If I want to perfect my sharpening technique, would it be a good idea to buy some cheap machetes to practice on before trying it with a sword?
I welcome any advice.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Aug 17, 2019 1:09:47 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 1:12:08 GMT
Welcome aboard. Lots of good threads already on the most recommended means to accomplish what you're after, and Paul's been so good as to compile them here: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/55116/sbg-sharpening-techniques-common-repairsIn short, some sandpaper and a block of wood is a good start. Higher grits remove less material, but leave a cleaner finish. You can blend bevels with something soft (often a mouse pad is recommended) over the same block of wood. Really, the wood is just a firm background to keep the paper flat. Use water, oil, or whatever lubricant you prefer to keep things going smoothly, though I sharpen dry, myself. As for angle, it depends what you're cutting. A more acute angle will work better on lighter targets but a beefier angle will be sturdier. More to it, but that's the basic overview. If you want a 30-degree bevel, I do believe that's 15 degrees per side, for a total of 30 degrees.
Curtis beat me. I guess I'm a bit wordy, but there you have it.
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Aug 17, 2019 1:28:59 GMT
Welcome.
Sandpaper to me would be the safest way to sharpen without messing up. It is slow but with give an excellent edge with the least chances of ruining the blade. Rather than take space here I’ll refer you the numerous videos on the subject both here on the forum and YouTube.
The most common way is to measure the angle from the centreline. Rather being best 30° is up for discussion and I think you will find various opinions and various angles will be debated. It largely depends on what you want out of the blade. 30° will give a robust edge. Less angle also has advantages but is more delicate. It depends on the target and what you expect. I prefer 25° for general purpose even on my working blades, but greater if I am up to hard targets or expect the edge to last longer and less for softer targets and show.
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Post by mumbles on Aug 17, 2019 1:42:44 GMT
Welcome. S andpaper to me would be the safest way to sharpen without messing up. It is slow but with give an excellent edge with the least chances of ruining the blade. Rather than take space here I’ll refer you the numerous videos on the subject both here on the forum and YouTube. The most common way is to measure the angle from the centreline. Rather being best 30° is up for discussion and I think you will find various opinions and various angles will be debated. It largely depends on what you want out of the blade. 30° will give a robust edge. Less angle also has advantages but is more delicate. It depends on the target and what you expect. I prefer 25° for general purpose even on my working blades, but greater if I am up to hard targets or expect the edge to last longer and less for softer targets and show. What type of sandpaper? What about a whetstone? Is that good for a beginner or am I likely to mess up the angle?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 2:16:09 GMT
Depends on grit, really. Coarser will remove more material in one pass, and leave more visible scratches on the surface. Finer will take off less material and leave less visible scratches. If you're worried about messing up geometry, it's better to start high so if you wander off the line you're working on, at least you won't leave any nasty scratches. This assumes the blade is already somewhat sharp; if you're trying to put an edge on something that has never had one, you're gonna want to start low.
Several years back, for instance, I ordered a Russian knife off eBay that arrived to me with the beginnings of an edge, but was dull. Butter knives cut better. I tried using the Smith's double-sided hone I've sharpened all my knives with for years, and to this day, but it wasn't touching it, so I caved and bought a Lansky kit. With some effort, the job was finally done.
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Post by pvsampson on Aug 17, 2019 2:30:51 GMT
Depends on grit, really. Coarser will remove more material in one pass, and leave more visible scratches on the surface. Finer will take off less material and leave less visible scratches. If you're worried about messing up geometry, it's better to start high so if you wander off the line you're working on, at least you won't leave any nasty scratches. This assumes the blade is already somewhat sharp; if you're trying to put an edge on something that has never had one, you're gonna want to start low. Just to add to this,if you want to prevent scratching the blade run some masking tape alongside the edge to protect.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 2:31:54 GMT
Good idea, that. Wish I'd thought of it before messing up so many of my favorite knives... Oh well, live and learn.
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Aug 17, 2019 3:18:25 GMT
Welcome. S andpaper to me would be the safest way to sharpen without messing up. It is slow but with give an excellent edge with the least chances of ruining the blade. Rather than take space here I’ll refer you the numerous videos on the subject both here on the forum and YouTube. The most common way is to measure the angle from the centreline. Rather being best 30° is up for discussion and I think you will find various opinions and various angles will be debated. It largely depends on what you want out of the blade. 30° will give a robust edge. Less angle also has advantages but is more delicate. It depends on the target and what you expect. I prefer 25° for general purpose even on my working blades, but greater if I am up to hard targets or expect the edge to last longer and less for softer targets and show. What type of sandpaper? What about a whetstone? Is that good for a beginner or am I likely to mess up the angle? I use wet/dry paper with WD-40 but any light oil will suffice, even water for that fact, but go with an oil. The grit size depends on how aggressive you want to be and how dull the blade is. 220 would not be a bad start and continually work your way to the finer grits. I usually stop at 600 or 1000 depending but you can go finer. That is only a brief caption. Whether I work with the paper stationary or blade stationary depends, in some cases for me one works better and in other cases I prefer the blade stationary. One thing most won’t tell you, and it’s just a matter of technique there is little etched in stone, is to use a slightly compressible backing to your paper which ever method you are using. This will allow the paper to follow the contours of the blade better. The tape idea is very good for beginners as frequently they try too shallow of an angle and scratch the blade, with more experience they can be polished out. There are many techniques and tools for sharpening and the best one sometimes is choosing one for a specific task when otherwise you wouldn’t use it. An example is AccuSharp. I sometime use one to break an edge and get rid of metal quickly before going to another method. Otherwise I wouldn’t touch one. Sharpening/polishing takes practice and you will make mistakes and with more experience you will learn how to correct an error. It’s a slow learning curve but stick with it as it will be rewarding.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 15:17:06 GMT
Depends on grit, really. Coarser will remove more material in one pass, and leave more visible scratches on the surface. Finer will take off less material and leave less visible scratches. If you're worried about messing up geometry, it's better to start high so if you wander off the line you're working on, at least you won't leave any nasty scratches. This assumes the blade is already somewhat sharp; if you're trying to put an edge on something that has never had one, you're gonna want to start low. Several years back, for instance, I ordered a Russian knife off eBay that arrived to me with the beginnings of an edge, but was dull. Butter knives cut better. I tried using the Smith's double-sided hone I've sharpened all my knives with for years, and to this day, but it wasn't touching it, so I caved and bought a Lansky kit. With some effort, the job was finally done. Is a Lansky kit a good way to finish a job like this or did you just use it to remove some metal?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 15:48:18 GMT
Is a Lansky kit a good way to finish a job like this or did you just use it to remove some metal? My kit had four stones going from something like 240 or 280 to 1,000 grit, so I used the lowest one to take off metal and the next few to polish up the mess it made. I think I stuck with the 20-degree preset slot.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 16:21:24 GMT
Is a Lansky kit a good way to finish a job like this or did you just use it to remove some metal? My kit had four stones going from something like 240 or 280 to 1,000 grit, so I used the lowest one to take off metal and the next few to polish up the mess it made. I think I stuck with the 20-degree preset slot. Were you happy with the final result? And, do you think a kit like this would be good for someone who was learning sharpening to help get a feel for the sharpening angles they like best?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 17:21:28 GMT
I think I have some pictures somewhere on this forum of the knife I referred to.
Overall, the Lansky set did a good job. I haven't really used the knife, turns out it's too lightweight for my liking, but the edge I put on it is still sharp several years later. I didn't get the tip, that's kinda tricky with the Lansky system, but it didn't really matter to me at the time, not nor does it now.
As for the angles, I typically freehand, so I wasn't super thrilled with the presets, but they did okay.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Aug 17, 2019 17:41:05 GMT
randomnobody linked some very good info in his first post in this thread. One of the links (in the link) takes you to several Tom Kinder (TomK) tutorial videos. Here is the original thread for some of the tutorials in that link... sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/18720This is my favorite thread and the one I used the most when I was learning to sharpen my blades. Also, read through the thread because many of your questions are asked by fellow forum members and Tom Kinder responds to them directly (he is a subject matter expert in the art of sharpening). I'm sure countless forum members got their start sharpening their swords watching Tom's vids.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 18:04:08 GMT
I think I have some pictures somewhere on this forum of the knife I referred to. Overall, the Lansky set did a good job. I haven't really used the knife, turns out it's too lightweight for my liking, but the edge I put on it is still sharp several years later. I didn't get the tip, that's kinda tricky with the Lansky system, but it didn't really matter to me at the time, not nor does it now. As for the angles, I typically freehand, so I wasn't super thrilled with the presets, but they did okay. Thanks, randomnobody. Curtis_Louis, thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.
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Post by mumbles on Aug 18, 2019 6:04:26 GMT
Is a Lansky kit a good way to finish a job like this or did you just use it to remove some metal? My kit had four stones going from something like 240 or 280 to 1,000 grit, so I used the lowest one to take off metal and the next few to polish up the mess it made. I think I stuck with the 20-degree preset slot. Hi randomnobody, Would this kit also be ok for a sword or machete? or is it only suitable for knives? I will probably get myself a bastard mill file to begin with, single cut, plus some sandpaper. Should I get a sanding block for backing? Also, would starting out by practicing on a cheap machetes be advised? I thank everybody for their advice.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 18, 2019 13:25:04 GMT
If you work in stages, you could probably use something like a Lansky for a sword, but it would be awkward at best. It's really designed for smaller blades, and can only reach so far from its bracket.
Using a cheap knife or machete to practice your method is a good idea. As for the tools, I'll let people who've worked with them weigh in. I've only ever used synthetic hones.
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Post by bebut on Aug 18, 2019 14:48:19 GMT
The advantage to wet-dry sandpaper is you can get any grit you want for the nominal cost of 1 piece of sandpaper and a scrap of wood for backing. A bunch of stones in different grits will cost a bunch and you will find many makers/vendors don't list their grits or the grits are not uniform.
Definitely practice on something cheap like a machete or a thrift store kitchen knife and tape up your good knives before sharpening. 1 little scratch on the side of a good blade is real hard to polish out. Avoid any powered sharpener until you really really master it on cheaper blades. The emphasis here is on "really".
I learned to sharpen knives on a pair of Arkansas stones and the "slice the butter off the toast" method. It worked fine but there are other ways. I proceeded to various jigs with considerable success and expense but I am reverting to back to stones, although synthetic ones. I am toying with the idea of moving on to Japanese water stones.
A tip on stones--make or buy a holder and sit or stand so you can work at a comfortable angle.
Bottom line, if you develop the skills, you could sharpen a sword with a Lansky puck and a bottle of mineral oil or even just water. Look at historical movies, they are using a river stone!
Starts at about 4:20
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