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Post by Siward on Aug 16, 2019 21:21:22 GMT
I’d like to add one to my collection.
It seems as if the choices are two by Armour Class, one by Cold Steel and one by Hanwei.
Is that the entirety of what’s available ? (Without going custom).
Presumably AC’s Mortuary Hilt or Cromwell are the best choices ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 21:53:53 GMT
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Post by Siward on Aug 17, 2019 10:45:09 GMT
Interesting, thanks Edelweiss Quick question, are Mortuary’s/ Back Swords normally single edge or double edge ? There seem to be varieties of both but I’m not sure if one is the genuine and one the imposter ?
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Post by markus313 on Aug 17, 2019 11:32:36 GMT
Can comment on the CS Backsword and Hanwei Cromwell. I like the CS more than the Cromwell. The Cromwell is more of a thruster, the CS more of a cutter (both can cut and thrust, though). I found the Cromwell a bit heavy, with too little blade presence (for my taste). Of the three CS I had, one came with a badly tempered blade, which also was a bit nose-heavy, too. My other two are really good.
I think Mortuary hilt swords were both double and single edged. Not sure if one style was more prominent than the other, or if one predated the other.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 17, 2019 14:21:43 GMT
I am not in a position to compare backswords as I have only one and that is a CS. If you haven’t already scaned the forum for reviews and comments try that. As for mine, it handles very well and I really like it. The blade has more flex than I prefer, but that is strictly subjective, and has nothing to do with cutting abilities. It’s a great cutter and will give more than satisfactory point. It is truly a welcomed addition to my collection. By definition a backsword is single edged, but not to say a sharpened false edge foible won’t exist. The one on CS is 11” (27.9 cm).
Windlass also makes one.
From Wikipedia
“A backsword is a type of sword characterised by having a single-edged blade and a hilt with a single-handed grip.[1] It is so called because the triangular cross section gives a flat back edge opposite the cutting edge.[2] Later examples often have a "false edge" on the back near the tip, which was in many cases sharpened to make an actual edge and facilitate thrusting attacks. ”
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Aug 17, 2019 23:42:39 GMT
I had AC Mort backsword, and Hanwei Cromwell. I still own the Hanwei Mort, but that's a blunt reenactment sword. I have cut with the discontinued Hanwei Mort sharp.
I haven't any experience with CS Mort and that because buying a CS is a gabble. They have been known for bad heat treat and I've seen some break from just cutting water bottles. Plus looking at Markus313 pictures, that basket is overly large. I'm Handled antique basket hilts and mort swords and their baskets weren't that big.
Out of all the modern reproduction basket hilt sword, the AC Mort handles the closest to the antiques. The main problem with the AC Mort is the blade. It's to whippy. I could cut tatami with it but I could feel the blade struggle. I you don't have a 100% edge alignment, you will have a hard time cutting with the sword.
The Cromwell, is good cut & thrust blade. With it's narrow and stiff blade it is more designed for thrusting but it still cut real good. I never had a problem cutting tatami mats or any thing else. The things that I didn't like about it was the basket protection. It has two less bars than most other morts. Plus I didn't like the square piece between the basket and grip.
Out of the three sword you asked about, I would chose the Cromwell.
If you are open to other suggestions? Out of all the modern reproduction basket hilts, I would suggest Hanwei Basket Hilt Backsword. It's the next basket hilt sword that handles close to the antiques. I've own and cut with, and handled lots of Basket hilt sword and the Hanwei Backsword, is the only mass produced one I still own.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Aug 18, 2019 6:09:25 GMT
I had AC Mort backsword, and Hanwei Cromwell. I still own the Hanwei Mort, but that's a blunt reenactment sword. I have cut with the discontinued Hanwei Mort sharp. I haven't any experience with CS Mort and that because buying a CS is a gabble. They have been known for bad heat treat and I've seen some break from just cutting water bottles. Plus looking at Markus313 pictures, that basket is overly large. I'm Handled antique basket hilts and mort swords and their baskets weren't that big. Out of all the modern reproduction basket hilt sword, the AC Mort handles the closest to the antiques. The main problem with the AC Mort is the blade. It's to whippy. I could cut tatami with it but I could feel the blade struggle. I you don't have a 100% edge alignment, you will have a hard time cutting with the sword. The Cromwell, is good cut & thrust blade. With it's narrow and stiff blade it is more designed for thrusting but it still cut real good. I never had a problem cutting tatami mats or any thing else. The things that I didn't like about it was the basket protection. It has two less bars than most other morts. Plus I didn't like the square piece between the basket and grip. Out of the three sword you asked about, I would chose the Cromwell. If you are open to other suggestions? Out of all the modern reproduction basket hilts, I would suggest Hanwei Basket Hilt Backsword. It's the next basket hilt sword that handles close to the antiques. I've own and cut with, and handled lots of Basket hilt sword and the Hanwei Backsword, is the only mass produced one I still own. Is the Cromwell's basket anywhere close to the size of originals?
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Post by markus313 on Aug 18, 2019 6:14:13 GMT
Looking for a basket-hilt, I find it very important to have protection to the underside of the hand. Since I need the additional bars near the pinky, like on the CS. Also I like to have the option of freedom of movement from the wrist (the Hanwei Scottish Backsword is a bit restrictive in that regard). I found the Hanwei Scottish Backsword a bit too heavy, too (again, for my taste). Just with the Cromwell, the grip is a bit round also and the weight centered very close to the hilt.
The blade on the Scottish Backsword is great, imo. I wished they sold a Scottish Basket Hilt Backsword replacement blade, I’d put one on a Cold Steel hilt.
The CS blade is good though, too, if you get a well-tempered one. So if I’d buy any of the options nowadays, I’d first flex test the blade lightly by hand and see if it takes a set. That should be a good first indicator of how well it is tempered. Then return it if it doesn’t spring back to true.
Regarding the size of the basket, that could vary quite a bit, according to my information. I find the size of the CS basket to be just right for me, it's not that much larger than on the Hanweis.
Stats and pics added for the Hanwei Scottish Backsword.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 18, 2019 7:14:38 GMT
I like the look and stats on the hanwei backsword but not the price tag.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 18, 2019 9:10:36 GMT
I’ve wanted a Scottish basket hilt for some time and nearly bought several times but always backed out due to the basket. I would read a report about the restrictiveness, pressure on a finger, the basket interfered with the hand movement, etc. I am 5’9”. 160 lbs, and have a size 8 (M) hand, and find the CS Backsword allows my complete freedom of movement. In regards to being “close to originals” remember people back then as a rule were smaller. Without having excessively large hands several swords in my collection tend to have grips on the small side for me. The CS Backsword fits me perfectly.
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Post by wlewisiii on Aug 18, 2019 16:25:51 GMT
I too went with the CS back sword. The basket may be large historically but when wearing my gloves (nomex and leather flying gloves), it fits my hand while still allowing freedom of movement. The blade on mine cuts well with a nice ringing sound when I cut a pool noodle. I would say it's a tossup between it and my Windlass 1906 saber for which is my best sword; I have no doubt that the CS is my favourite.
I considered all the other swords listed and may yet order the Mary Rose type back sword from Armor Class, buy that will be because of that hilt rather than any problem with the CS.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 18, 2019 17:08:22 GMT
I neglected to say that it fits when wearing gloves. In my case a leather/canvas work glove. I have fencing gloves but this is a unique case the work glove serves better. I tried with the fencing gloves but my old work glove, it has out lasted its mate so well broken in, works better. I don't have a favourite but the CS Backsword is amongst my favourites.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Aug 18, 2019 17:29:15 GMT
I’ve wanted a Scottish basket hilt for some time and nearly bought several times but always backed out due to the basket. I would read a report about the restrictiveness, pressure on a finger, the basket interfered with the hand movement, etc. I am 5’9”. 160 lbs, and have a size 8 (M) hand, and find the CS Backsword allows my complete freedom of movement. In regards to being “close to originals” remember people back then as a rule were smaller. Without having excessively large hands several swords in my collection tend to have grips on the small side for me. The CS Backsword fits me perfectly. People in the early Middle Ages, were the same size as us. The height declined until the 19 century. Tod Cutler, says the hands back then were 3mm smaller. So their hands weren't that much smaller than us. Look at 2:35
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Aug 18, 2019 17:35:57 GMT
Looking for a basket-hilt, I find it very important to have protection to the underside of the hand. Since I need the additional bars near the pinky, like on the CS. Also I like to have the option of freedom of movement from the wrist (the Hanwei Scottish Backsword is a bit restrictive in that regard). I found the Hanwei Scottish Backsword a bit too heavy, too (again, for my taste). Just with the Cromwell, the grip is a bit round also and the weight centered very close to the hilt.
The blade on the Scottish Backsword is great, imo. I wished they sold a Scottish Basket Hilt Backsword replacement blade, I’d put one on a Cold Steel hilt.
The CS blade is good though, too, if you get a well-tempered one. So if I’d buy any of the options nowadays, I’d first flex test the blade lightly by hand and see if it takes a set. That should be a good first indicator of how well it is tempered. Then return it if it doesn’t spring back to true.
Regarding the size of the basket, that could vary quite a bit, according to my information. I find the size of the CS basket to be just right for me, it's not that much larger than on the Hanweis.
Stats and pics added for the Hanwei Scottish Backsword. By your numbers. Your CS Mot 1 sword fits well with the antiques. The most of the antique basket hilts that I handled and took measurements on seven had a POB of 2" to 2 3/4", three had POB in the 3" range, and one had a 4" POB
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Aug 18, 2019 18:01:13 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 18, 2019 21:19:55 GMT
Is the Cromwell's basket anywhere close to the size of originals? Measuring from the photos of the original, collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-185.htmlthe Hanwei basket is very close to the same size. My average adult male hands fit well, but there isn't much clearance so large hands might not fit.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Aug 18, 2019 22:27:03 GMT
Is the Cromwell's basket anywhere close to the size of originals? Measuring from the photos of the original, collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-185.htmlthe Hanwei basket is very close to the same size. My average adult male hands fit well, but there isn't much clearance so large hands might not fit.
Excellent, thank you both.
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Post by markus313 on Aug 19, 2019 13:31:18 GMT
By your numbers. Your CS Mot 1 sword fits well with the antiques. The most of the antique basket hilts that I handled and took measurements on seven had a POB of 2" to 2 3/4", three had POB in the 3" range, and one had a 4" POB Hey, that’s good to hear, since it’s one of my „safe queens“ Also thank you for the measurements!
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