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Post by pvsampson on Aug 16, 2019 2:57:40 GMT
As I have no access to any teaching where I live,I have been watching Iaido videos to learn as much as I can by studying the techniques yet I have noted differences in the performing by some masters.One has me a little confused as in these two videos the movements show one teacher bringing the tsuba very close to the head,yet the other does not.Is this because of different schools/styles and which would be the better to perform? As they both seem to achieve the desired result would it matter which one I choose?
This vid shows the chibori at 1min 8sec
This one shows at the beginning
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Post by Cosmoline on Aug 16, 2019 17:51:16 GMT
I don't know JSA, but the second one almost appears to be a safety measure--possibly for new people. By placing hilt near the head in that fashion, you help ensure that the novice will not clip his or her own scalp with the flicking motion.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 16, 2019 19:07:06 GMT
Different schools will not always use the same technique. But as stated in the second video flicking the blade will not remove all the blood. It is expected in a kata though. I’ve never been able to clean a blade in that manner. I used water to simulate blood when cutting bottles. So while it is part of a kata regardless what school you follow to me in real life it is BS. I’ve watched a number of old Japanese movies and noticed from time to time a white cloth protruding from a kimono at mid chest. Eventually I discovered the significance of the cloth. It is to wipe the blade clean. That method works. And to me the the only valued technique, everything else is for show or BS. If you will watch Lancelot Chan’s videos he too uses this method when cutting.
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Post by pvsampson on Aug 16, 2019 22:45:18 GMT
I don't know JSA, but the second one almost appears to be a safety measure--possibly for new people. By placing hilt near the head in that fashion, you help ensure that the novice will not clip his or her own scalp with the flicking motion. Good point about scalping.Also the hand placement could serve as a reference point for the performance to ensure at least an attempt at repitition.
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Post by pvsampson on Aug 16, 2019 22:52:36 GMT
Different schools will not always use the same technique. But as stated in the second video flicking the blade will not remove all the blood. It is expected in a kata though. I’ve never been able to clean a blade in that manner. I used water to simulate blood when cutting bottles. So while it is part of a kata regardless what school you follow to me in real life it is BS. I’ve watched a number of old Japanese movies and noticed from time to time a white cloth protruding from a kimono at mid chest. Eventually I discovered the significance of the cloth. It is to wipe the blade clean. That method works. And to me the the only valued technique, everything else is for show or BS. If you will watch Lancelot Chan’s videos he too uses this method when cutting. I have a cloth for wiping after cuts as well. It may be "BS" but as you mentioned it is expected. I will train with the "close to head" technique as it seems safer.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 22, 2019 21:38:54 GMT
Different schools will not always use the same technique. But as stated in the second video flicking the blade will not remove all the blood. It is expected in a kata though. I’ve never been able to clean a blade in that manner. I used water to simulate blood when cutting bottles. So while it is part of a kata regardless what school you follow to me in real life it is BS. I’ve watched a number of old Japanese movies and noticed from time to time a white cloth protruding from a kimono at mid chest. Eventually I discovered the significance of the cloth. It is to wipe the blade clean. That method works. And to me the the only valued technique, everything else is for show or BS. If you will watch Lancelot Chan’s videos he too uses this method when cutting. I've always seen chidori as a way to remove the bulk of the blood, so the cloth does it's job a little better. Never tried it tho, as I've always used paper towel or a piece of cotton to wipe my blades after use
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 23, 2019 9:57:03 GMT
I believe the traditional way was to use a cloth as that was before the era of paper towels. I too use a paper towel and didn’t mean only a cloth would clean the blade. I have tried every possible manner of dry the blade by flipping, hitting with the offhand etc. and some of the water would come off but not all and I didn’t want to introduce that to the inside of my saya much less blood. I got my second katana in I think that I got it in ’55 and it had seen hot combat and not cleaned correctly. My first katana was in ’46 and was in perfect condition and was lost in a move. The second was gifted by a MSG who offered it to me in place of something promised but he was unable to deliver and accepted. It was a souvenir from one of the Pacific islands. For whatever reason it wasn’t cleaned properly, lack of, knowledge of effects of blood, water, time, whatever, and 2½-3” of the tip was blackened. There were no pits but badly discoloured and it was possible to feel the difference in the surface of the polished steel and the the affected area. I’d rather not have a repeat. I don’t fool with katanas any more as my interest lies with European swords.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 23, 2019 11:04:18 GMT
I believe the traditional way was to use a cloth as that was before the era of paper towels. I too use a paper towel and didn’t mean only a cloth would clean the blade. I have tried every possible manner of dry the blade by flipping, hitting with the offhand etc. and some of the water would come off but not all and I didn’t want to introduce that to the inside of my saya much less blood. I got my second katana in I think that I got it in ’55 and it had seen hot combat and not cleaned correctly. My first katana was in ’46 and was in perfect condition and was lost in a move. The second was gifted by a MSG who offered it to me in place of something promised but he was unable to deliver and accepted. It was a souvenir from one of the Pacific islands. For whatever reason it wasn’t cleaned properly, lack of, knowledge of effects of blood, water, time, whatever, and 2½-3” of the tip was blackened. There were no pits but badly discoloured and it was possible to feel the difference in the surface of the polished steel and the the affected area. I’d rather not have a repeat. I don’t fool with katanas any more as my interest lies with European swords. I hear ya. I have a couple katana and they are great for indoor practice, but I am much more interested in my other swords Truth be told, I don't know how effective the chidori is. I add it to kata, for style, but I never really considered it anywhere near effective enough to not just switch to a cloth anyway
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Post by maewyn on Aug 23, 2019 11:20:02 GMT
There is little to no practical reason for chibori.It does not clean the blade.It is mostly a formality to focus zanshin and end the kata.In some styles,as in Toyama Ryu it is an enguard position,kissaki held on the downed opponent in case he is "playing dead",and in position to return to guard for parry or attack.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 16:18:44 GMT
There is no physical blood in a kata, so worrying about whether chibori actually gets blood off a blade is like worrying about whether bowing to the kamiza will really keep the little ghost living in the dollhouse from getting mad at me.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 23, 2019 16:21:38 GMT
There is no physical blood in a kata, so worrying about whether chibori actually gets blood off a blade is like worrying about whether bowing to the kamiza will really keep the little ghost living in the dollhouse from getting mad at me. Fair enough. That pretty much answers that portion haha
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 19:04:27 GMT
My belief is that chibori is performed as an act of purification to address any defilement resulting from the symbolic enactment of violence.
The terms "harae" and "kegare" may be of interest on that vein.
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Post by pvsampson on Aug 24, 2019 1:55:28 GMT
So close to the head or no?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 24, 2019 3:25:11 GMT
The terms "harae" and "kegare" may be of interest on that vein. That’s how the tip of my katana got stained.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 24, 2019 3:28:26 GMT
So close to the head or no? I put my hand bit above my forhead, and about 2-3 inches away, when I do mine. But that's just how I was taught. People are free to correct me if I'm doing it wrong. Towards the end of my dojo years, the place got crowded so it wasn't as easy for teachers to pay individual attention, and the black belts seemed to slowly be phased out by ones who cared a lot less about form
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Post by pvsampson on Aug 24, 2019 7:26:14 GMT
So close to the head or no? I put my hand bit above my forhead, and about 2-3 inches away, when I do mine. But that's just how I was taught. People are free to correct me if I'm doing it wrong. Towards the end of my dojo years, the place got crowded so it wasn't as easy for teachers to pay individual attention, and the black belts seemed to slowly be phased out by ones who cared a lot less about form I've tried both methods and the first feels more comfortable,but the second close one feels a little safer and I think I will practise that. I have noticed quite a bit of difference in training on several videos.Allowing for idiosyncrasies,hand positioning,movements,posture and foot placement vary but the base is there.
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Post by Google on Sept 1, 2019 11:45:25 GMT
there's no real importance, just make sure not to shave your head. also, there are other chiburi
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